Header/Exhaust combo power difference?

[kch]

Originally Posted by Strife26

They don't sell the uel anymore right? I wanted it cause it was 3" but thought I saw they don't make it anymore?

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Not sure where people keep getting that idea. It's still on the website, and Jesse himself says they have some in-stock and ready to go.

[kch]

Originally Posted by Mr. Orange

I've been reading EL is better for performance.

People think that's just common knowledge, but a good UEL will be within 1-2 peak WHP of an EL header when tuned properly, and will generally provide greater power in midrange, too.

If you compare dyno sheets, the "EL is better" assumption isn't really so clear-cut.

[MotoX16]

Originally Posted by Strife26

Just FYI "Keep in mind that all these tests are done with the stock header (contains a cat), and front pipe with cat!" it looks like these gains don't come from the header unless I missed something.

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Yeah I was just talking about everything after the header, 3" would be best for performance.

I havent been able to find much info on how much header collector diameter matters. But the Ace header is the best performing header out there

[kch]

Originally Posted by MotoX16

Yeah I was just talking about everything after the header, 3" would be best for performance.

I havent been able to find much info on how much header collector diameter matters. But the Ace header is the best performing header out there

You have personal experience, or is that just what you heard? Because I've seen same-car dyno comparisons that fail to justify the near-universal praise the Ace header gets around here.

DGMW, I'm sure it's a quality part, and I'm sure some will say "they must not have tuned it properly" like the Ace header is some magical piece that requires special knowledge. Pipes are pipes.

[Strife26]

Originally Posted by Mr. Orange

I've been reading EL is better for performance.

It is. I prefer uel for the sound. I plan to purchase a rebuild with upgraded internals so I can up the boost so the 5hp difference won't really matter when I'm pushing 18-25 lbs of boost (or whatever number I end up with).

not the best vid, but sound clips woowoo (sorry, it's actually a terrible video, lol. Skip towards the end)

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[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by kch

People think that's just common knowledge, but a good UEL will be within 1-2 peak WHP of an EL header when tuned properly, and will generally provide greater power in midrange, too.

If you compare dyno sheets, the "EL is better" assumption isn't really so clear-cut.

JDL's own EL header has better midrange than their UEL header. Dont forget the midrange of the ACE EL header.. UEL headers had better midrange when companies were still doing 4-1 EL headers. However with current 4-2-1 EL designs it's no longer the case.

[bfrank1972]

- headers are mostly about midrange and eliminating the torque dip on our cars

- not all headers are created equal, and it's not just down to EL vs UEL. There are different EL and UEL designs based on cost, routing, sound, and target power band.

- of the headers that are of a good design, they all make really nice differences in how the car drives *when paired with a good tune*, tune is essential

- of the good header and tune packages, there really isn't much in it. ACE is probably best overall, but maybe by a few hp here and there over other quality engineered headers. So IMHO pick the quality header/tune package that fits your budget and sounds best to you.



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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by kch

You have personal experience, or is that just what you heard? Because I've seen same-car dyno comparisons that fail to justify the near-universal praise the Ace header gets around here.

DGMW, I'm sure it's a quality part, and I'm sure some will say "they must not have tuned it properly" like the Ace header is some magical piece that requires special knowledge. Pipes are pipes.

Can you post or link to the ace comparisons you are referring to?

And yes the 4-2-1 design / runner lengths and angle/bends are unique to the design and requires specific tuning more so then other generic headers that are all very similar in design. OTS tunes get you 80-90% of max gains from most headers. But will get you very little on an ACE it’s just too different in design.

[churchx]

Generic OTS tunes gave just 5whp on ace. I guess ace's earned their fame only after DT invested lot of manhours into getting ace-specific tune which finally was able to let them shine. I find it rather possible scenario that some tuning shop with more expertise with ecu tunes with more generic non long-tube 4-2-1 designs and less time to spend on just one car tune and rather probably just "custom-fine-dialing" some OTS tune may net worse results then them (as everything costs a lot, be it dyno time, be it tuner's time). Hence imho going for DT is safest bet to use with ace's.
There were some longtube specific OFT tunes floating around (for eg. Nameless/PLM/Ace), but don't know how well they do, and if something from those might be reused in making non-DT ace specific ecutek tune.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by churchx

Generic OTS tunes gave just 5whp on ace. I guess ace's earned their fame only after DT invested lot of manhours into getting ace-specific tune which finally was able to let them shine. I find it rather possible scenario that some tuning shop with more expertise with ecu tunes with more generic non long-tube 4-2-1 designs and less time to spend on just one car tune and rather probably just "custom-fine-dialing" some OTS tune may net worse results then them (as everything costs a lot, be it dyno time, be it tuner's time). Hence imho going for DT is safest bet to use with ace's.
There were some longtube specific OFT tunes floating around (for eg. Nameless/PLM/Ace), but don't know how well they do, and if something from those might be reused in making non-DT ace specific ecutek tune.

Yup, one of the things that make the Ace setups good is DT's partnership with CSG, I believe they spent a lot of dyno and track time fine tuning maps for the various headers from Ace. I imagine if you take a Ptuning, JDL, P&L, Nameless, etc. header and spent that much time custom tuning you'd get some impressive results. It's a good business model partnering a header designer with a tuner.

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[Turdinator]

Headers are more complicated than UEL vs EL. You best bet is to treat each header as an individual when looking at it from a performance point of view. Have a look at as many dynos as you can and compare the shapes of the torque curves rather than the power figures. As mentioned above the tuner you go with is also important for power and optimised torque curve. For instance if you are going with OFT canned tunes a UEL is best.

[mgarcia707]

Currently running a JDL UEL Catless Header + Perrin 3" Exhaust with OFT tune. I highly recommend this setup.