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Old 06-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #239
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My only real complaint is lack of manual transmission. By the numbers, I previously complained about it's power output but apparently they're being insanely conservative there. So I rescinded that one.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:14 PM   #240
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everyone wants hypercar performance for economy car money.
Pretty much this. Can't buy a GT3 with Boxster money.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:21 PM   #241
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That new Z4 is kind of growing on me... If toyota was able to influence this to be more reliable than most modern bmws maybe I'll get one..



If only they made the Z4 in a hardtop...
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:55 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
I must be out of the loop or something. What do people expect from a car at this price point? Isn't the performance on par with other cars in it's class? It's not like the Supra was ever supposed to be a hypercar or something. It is certainly miles better in many ways than the last generation Supra.
What am I missing here?
The Supra was a sports car that embodied the best engineering and performance from Toyota at that time. This new Supra doesn't. In many ways, Lexus is the brand that embodies what Toyota can achieve in performance (LFA) and luxury (LC500), so the Supra is no longer relevant. This frustrates enthusiasts in many ways. All this new Supra reflects is the best that Toyota can achieve with the parts they can source in the current economy for sports cars, while still making a profit, which is far from what the Supra represented.

The MKV Supra would need to be a $75k-100k car or more to match where it once competed. The MKIV and MKV have the same MSRP, but are being sold 25 years apart, so it is apparent the bar was lowered for the Supra. No longer is the Supra competing against the GTR or NSX. This is hard for some Supra enthusiasts to swallow. This was compounded by the fact that the car isn't a pure Toyota sports car; somewhat of a slap to the face to Supra purists. This is most apparent in the cabin, which will most likely feel like a BMW and not like a Japanese/Toyota sports car.

At the same time, other enthusiasts are happy. They get to buy a new Supra at a fraction of what a "real" MKV Supra would cost, with performance that should exceed the MKIV Supra in almost every way, and for them, the car is enough of a shadow of the cars of the past that they are satisfied. These general car enthusiasts are just happy they are getting another Toyota developed and tuned sports car. They understand that Toyota knows how to create a driver's car, even if all the parts aren't coming from them. For these enthusiasts, they will take whatever they can get.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:34 PM   #243
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^why is it not relevant? it out performances your $90k+ LC500.

the Supra competed with cars like the 300zx, 3000GT, and RX7. even back then it was priced like $20k less than the NSX. A80's pricing was a little high because of the of rising yen. the car was cheaper in Japan, hence why they sold like x3 as much overseas.
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:00 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
The Supra was a sports car that embodied the best engineering and performance from Toyota at that time.
Horseshit

Mk1-Mk2 Supras were Celicas with bigger motors stuck in them.

Affordable sports cars (cheaper than Corvettes or Porsches) that punched above their weight, the Mk5 is a return to form.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:37 PM   #245
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Horseshit

Mk1-Mk2 Supras were Celicas with bigger motors stuck in them.

Affordable sports cars (cheaper than Corvettes or Porsches) that punched above their weight, the Mk5 is a return to form.
The Celica name was used on a few models like the Celica Camry, but don’t be fooled; the Supra was much more than the Celica with a longer hood n engine. Read up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Supra

Also, check your sources on those prices... $40k+...

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/...and-new.30936/

1998 C5 base Corvette with 350hp and 350tq...started at $38k...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...-the-year/amp/
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:52 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by gymratter View Post
^why is it not relevant? it out performances your $90k+ LC500.

the Supra competed with cars like the 300zx, 3000GT, and RX7. even back then it was priced like $20k less than the NSX. A80's pricing was a little high because of the of rising yen. the car was cheaper in Japan, hence why they sold like x3 as much overseas.
It is not relevant in the sense that the car is not an example of Toyota’s capabilities or engineering.

The LC500 is a flagship luxury grand touring sports car. They took the same 2UR engine in the RCF, ISF, GSF and put it in a larger vehicle. Track times is not what the LC500 is about. The LFA was about track performance.

This is true. It did compete with those cars. And enthusiasts threw a fit when the 350z and RX8 came out because they were seen as a step back from their predecessors, and they were. Nissan and Mazda took a step back with these models instead of moving forward for several reasons. Nissan decided to move forward with the GTR, as did Acura with the NSX. Toyota could have used the 2UR with turbos in a unique chassis and that would have felt more like a Supra to many, even without the straight six. They could have omitted the turbos and made a smaller and lighter RCF and people probably would whine too, but they would see the similarities between that and the Supra/Soarer of the past.

This Supra is great, but I’m just giving context to the grief from many die hard Toyota fans. Imagine if Ford made a Mustang with a LS or with a 2UR. What would the Ford guys be saying?
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:11 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Also, check your sources on those prices... $40k+...

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/...and-new.30936/

1998 C5 base Corvette with 350hp and 350tq...started at $38k...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...-the-year/amp/
1985 Supra P-Type MSRP: $16,558 HP:161
1985 Corvette Base MSRP: $24,891 HP: 230
1985 Porsche 911 Base MSRP: $32,500 HP: 207

Quote:
For its first two generations of Supra, Toyota officially names its six-cylinder coupe the Celica Supra. The name hints at what the early Supra shares with the four-cylinder Celica underneath: a common chassis.
[...]
While we appreciate the first-generation Celica Supra for its reasonable power and modern amenities, its tight cabin and numb steering make it difficult to love. Fortunately, Toyota takes our words to heart and blesses the Mark 2 Celica Supra with the sort of driving dynamics that would help it go on to snag two of our 10Best Cars awards (one in 1983 and another in 1984). We also loved our long-term ’83 example.

The second-gen Celica Supra bows for the 1982 model year and swaps the old model’s live rear axle for independent semi-trailing arms, a setup that helps earn it fourth place—beating a Ferrari, a Lotus, and two Porsches—in a 1984 Car and Driver comparison test seeking the best-handling imported car. And in 1985, the Toyota finishes second to the Audi Coupe GT in an eight-car battle to determine the best sports coupe in America. Underhood, a new twin-cam 2.8-liter inline-six corrals 145 horses, making it 29 ponies stronger than the single-cam unit it replaced.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...supra-history/

The Supra first peaked as a car that was 2/3 the price of a Corvette and 1/2 the price of a 911 and punched above it's weight before Toyota started pouring money into the chassis to make the third and fourth generations, and even the third gen was still significantly cheaper than the competition (~$23k with options vs. the $28k starting price of an '87 C4). The Mk4 is the anomaly of the Supra family, not the standard. The Mk5 is a return to form undercutting the American and German Gran Tourers by platform sharing delivering great performance value.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:18 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Horseshit

Mk1-Mk2 Supras were Celicas with bigger motors stuck in them.

Affordable sports cars (cheaper than Corvettes or Porsches) that punched above their weight, the Mk5 is a return to form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
1985 Supra P-Type MSRP: $16,558 HP:161
1985 Corvette Base MSRP: $24,891 HP: 230
1985 Porsche 911 Base MSRP: $32,500 HP: 207


https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...supra-history/

The Supra first peaked as a car that was 2/3 the price of a Corvette and 1/2 the price of a 911 and punched above it's weight before Toyota started pouring money into the chassis to make the third and fourth generations, and even the third gen was still significantly cheaper than the competition (~$23k with options vs. the $28k starting price of an '87 C4). The Mk4 is the anomaly of the Supra family, not the standard. The Mk5 is a return to form undercutting the American and German Gran Tourers by platform sharing delivering great performance value.
Again, the first gen Supra wasn't just a Celica with a larger motor. It had more amenities and more luxury options than the Celica. Yes, it was built on the same chassis, but as you quoted above, by the second gen the car really gained notoriety, and again, was more than a Celica with a bigger motor stuck in them. More to read:

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota...-ar163624.html

The MKIII was also up there in price too. Check the sticker prices and compare it to the C4 Corvette. Remember too that this was for the 7MGTE and not the 1JZGTE that was in Japan.

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/...en-new.253913/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevro...R-1_(1990–1995)

You do realize that a base C7 Stingray is $56k, right? Do you really believe anyone will be actually be buying a MKV Supra at $50k, and even if there isn't the typical dealer markups on the MSRP, how is a $6k difference great value when the base Corvette has 450hp/450tq from an NA 6.2L, has a manual option, and is lighter?
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:12 PM   #249
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You do realize that a base C7 Stingray is $56k, right? Do you really believe anyone will be actually be buying a MKV Supra at $50k, and even if there isn't the typical dealer markups on the MSRP, how is a $6k difference great value when the base Corvette has 450hp/450tq from an NA 6.2L, has a manual option, and is lighter?
The car is already sold out in EU, AU, and JP. We could also ask why would anyone want to buy a 86/BRZ over a cheaper and more powerful Mustang and Camaro. If power and price are the only factors we could also ask why would anyone want a Cayman, Boxster, SLC, F-Type, TT, Z4, etc. over a C7. Different strokes for different folks. When it comes down to it this is a niche product just like the 86. Toyota isn't looking to sale 20k-30k units a year like with the Corvette. We also need to keep in mind that the C7 is ending production. Some media outlets are reporting that the upcoming C8 will be anywhere from $65k-$70k. It's also worth noting that the C8 is rumored to be auto only. If true, I don't blame GM, roughly only 20% or so of C7 buyers chose the manual.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:19 PM   #250
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I must point out that the title of this thread is now so out of date that it has become irony.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:45 PM   #251
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The car is already sold out in EU, AU, and JP. We could also ask why would anyone want to buy a 86/BRZ over a cheaper and more powerful Mustang and Camaro. If power and price are the only factors we could also ask why would anyone want a Cayman, Boxster, SLC, F-Type, TT, Z4, etc. over a C7. Different strokes for different folks. When it comes down to it this is a niche product just like the 86. Toyota isn't looking to sale 20k-30k units a year like with the Corvette. We also need to keep in mind that the C7 is ending production. Some media outlets are reporting that the upcoming C8 will be anywhere from $65k-$70k. It's also worth noting that the C8 is rumored to be auto only. If true, I don't blame GM, roughly only 20% or so of C7 buyers chose the manual.
You are quoting me out of context. I wasn’t dismissing the value of the Supra to perspective cross shoppers or suggesting there wouldn’t be interest. This was all in the context of helping shed light on the grievances many enthusiasts have with the MKV Supra, and it was part of a larger retort to the assertion from another member that the Supra was a cheap sports car, a souped up Celica, that the MKIV Supra was an anomaly, that the Supra didn’t reflect the best of Toyota in a sports car form, etc., that the MKV Supra is a shift back to these things. Read everything, not just one paragraph—at least to post 242.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:50 AM   #252
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I must point out that the title of this thread is now so out of date that it has become irony.
True but does anyone here actually care about the Z4 outside of the context that it shares stuff with the Supra?
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