Opinions: Tein Flex A or RCE Tarmac/Bilstein

[swarb]

Originally Posted by whataboutbob

You might also consider the RS-R Club Racers: http://counterspacegarage.com/rsr-sp...ubaru-brz.html

They include camber plates with spherical bearings that can allow you to get up to -3 degrees camber in the front. They come with 8K springs square, and you can adjust ride height independent of piston stroke position.

I've been daily driving a set on my car for almost a year, and the range of damper adjustment will allow for a smooth ride on rough streets as well as heavier damping for Auto X events.

LOL you are going to suggest something 2.5x the price of what he is already looking at? Might as well suggest ohllins or some penskes.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

My friends that were playing with the adjustments have engineering backgrounds. I can assure you they've tested the entire range of adjustments. lol (*really anal mofos)

Unless they have specifically studied damping and harmonics, their engineering backgrounds mean little to nothing.

You don't go to an oncologist when you have a heart problem.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by swarb

LOL you are going to suggest something 2.5x the price of what he is already looking at? Might as well suggest ohllins or some penskes.

OP stated "Budget really isn't an issue". I just made an additional suggestion based on what I read and my experience. I don't see how suggesting Penskes would be a useful suggestion since as I understand that's a $7,000 price point.

[BobBRZ]

and I was suggesting he consider "stretching" the budget and take a serious look at the Fortune Auto 500's and the Feal 441's. Both can be had for under $1500 and I can't find a negative comment or review of either anywhere.

I raced mountain bikes for years in a pro class and know a lot about tuning the suspension forks and shocks. I learned how to dial in high speed and low speed compression dampening. I felt the differences between different shock oils. However, the best decision I made when racing was to have a well respected company completely customize my shocks based on my weight, the bike, and how and where I rode. This type of attention to detail was expensive. If I had to pay full price, my front shock alone would exceed the cost of these coil overs! One other thing I've learned though the years is that suspension preferences can vary wildly. The NY state camp set his suspension up very soft with little compression damping, less air pressure, and fast rebound. Another friend who turned pro last year set up his suspension extremely stiff with LOTS of high speed and low speed compression dampening. Both riders were very fast! And loved their set-ups. They both won their categories last season. I thought both sucked and set my suspension differently -- lots of low speed compression, very little high speed compression, speed sensitive rebound set up on the slow side, and a spring rate on the softer side. I dominated my class when I last raced a full season. Our bikes each felt very different, and they were the exact same frames from the same company.

What I like about FA is that you can talk to someone who should know what they are doing, and they will help you choose spring rates, range of dampening etc. The shocks will be set up based on what you tell them and how you want the car to feel. With all the other options in this range you will have to hope that the company designed them in a way that you like. You may love them, or hate them. Don't listen to much when someone raves about their shocks, they may have different preferences and driving style. Since I know pretty much nothing about setting up auto suspension, I plan on having a long conversation with someone at Fortune Auto and trust that they can get it right. After I really think about how I want the car to perform and am sure I can describe the characteristics to someone.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unless they have specifically studied damping and harmonics, their engineering backgrounds mean little to nothing.

You don't go to an oncologist when you have a heart problem.

I'm not suggesting that they're suspension specialist, I'm only saying that they are very thorough and anal as engineers tend to be.

[churchx]

solidONE: but i often seen cases where having high skill level in seemingly similar area may lead to unbased overconfidence and wrong decisions on subject. Like how doctors often complain that worst patients ever are other doctors (of different field), as despite being of different specialisation they have unshakeable beliefs set in stone that they KNOW better then doctor that specialises in this field and treats them. Or how some competent plumbing specialist/engineer that designed high pressure lines in high-tech manufacturing factories made some rather stupid/inefficient choices when was doing for hobby liquid cooling for this PC.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ChrisSC300

Thanks everyone. Looks like bilstein's it is. Seems more suited to my application and needs.

@Racecomp Engineering, thanks for the reply. Budget really isn't an issue. I'm just not down for paying big money for stuff I would rarely take advantage of. I was originally considering your T0's or T2's but for my every other month auto x and maybe 1-2 times a year track days the t2's would be overkill. Top hats and rear LCA's are in the plan. This way I can have a nice -1.5/-2 of front camber for DD then easily change it for autocross. How do your street camber plates compare to the RACESENG plates. They look very similar. I plan on getting either of the two.

Ours are super easy to adjust with our little adjustment tool...so if you plan on doing that a lot, that's a nice bonus.

Both are nice plates though. I don't think I'd consider any other.

I would suggest thinking about the T0s as well. They're an easy, durable, and really fun set-up not far from your price range. I'm not sure I'd look at them as overkill...they'll handle better and ride about the same. Yes more money though. The Bilstein + Tarmac springs is a good solution too.

- Andrew

[Cartman]

I have Swift spec-R springs (similar to the RCE tarmacs in spring rate) with koni shocks, the adjustability in the koni shocks has given me the freedom to match the damping to the spring rate to the point I use my current damping setup for DD and track with no issue... I currently drive it with about 1.5 turns from soft (out of 2.25 turns). If I go full soft I can have a ride that's close to and maybe a little softer than stock.

I already have about 4K miles on my setup.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by churchx

solidONE: but i often seen cases where having high skill level in seemingly similar area may lead to unbased overconfidence and wrong decisions on subject. Like how doctors often complain that worst patients ever are other doctors (of different field), as despite being of different specialisation they have unshakeable beliefs set in stone that they KNOW better then doctor that specialises in this field and treats them. Or how some competent plumbing specialist/engineer that designed high pressure lines in high-tech manufacturing factories made some rather stupid/inefficient choices when was doing for hobby liquid cooling for this PC.

You're absolutely right, however when exploring a set of off the shelf dampers I'll take a strong understanding of robust experimental methods over a deep understanding of damping curves and suspension theory, unless they have a shock dyno on hand. You don't need a degree to go Mythbusters on this type of stuff.

We're talking about trying different combinations of 1-click 2-click 3-click and a couple manuals on the subject, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine you are unhappy with how a damper performs, whether your right or wrong on it's true performance. As above suspension setups can be very preferential.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're absolutely right, however when exploring a set of off the shelf dampers I'll take a strong understanding of robust experimental methods over a deep understanding of damping curves and suspension theory, unless they have a shock dyno on hand. You don't need a degree to go Mythbusters on this type of stuff.

We're talking about trying different combinations of 1-click 2-click 3-click and a couple manuals on the subject, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine you are unhappy with how a damper performs, whether your right or wrong on it's true performance. As above suspension setups can be very preferential.

Unfortunately, even the most basic coilover has more adjustments than just the damping knobs. It's all too easy to install a set with inappropriate height, preload, and stroke range, without realizing that these are all adjustments that are vital to the performance of the damper!

[cdrazic93]

One of the reasons why i like Andy and RCE, that was a completely unbiased vendor post purely aimed at helping, rather than product pushing

I would like to see a good breakdown review of these two options.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

solidONE: but i often seen cases where having high skill level in seemingly similar area may lead to unbased overconfidence and wrong decisions on subject. Like how doctors often complain that worst patients ever are other doctors (of different field), as despite being of different specialisation they have unshakeable beliefs set in stone that they KNOW better then doctor that specialises in this field and treats them. Or how some competent plumbing specialist/engineer that designed high pressure lines in high-tech manufacturing factories made some rather stupid/inefficient choices when was doing for hobby liquid cooling for this PC.

I agree this is a very common occurance. As long as there are dudes with egos, there will be things like this going on. Although I don't see what this has to do with my friends pogoing suspension.

[Trettiosjuan]

Anybody near RCE/CSG should feel fortunate to be able to use their services.

Because I'm not I have the Flex A incoming because of the damper adjustability. If I was, I'd go for Bilstein B8 with custom straight wound springs with matching valving. Relative high spring rates and almost stock height for maximum bump stroke performance, B8 for the high rate spring that has less droop but extends quick because of the constant rate. In a Perfect World, it had the hydraulic bumpstop from the A's. A twin that eats bumpy forest roads for beakfast. And shows all those stance fashion devices how to take a speedhump at (not twice but like ten times their) speed...