Best $3k coilovers? Sachs, Moton, MCS, AST, JRZ.

[Yui-Chan]

Yes, I agree. Using OTS valving (like my budget suggests) would be the biggest reason why tires, susp mods, power, usage, etc, would now be very important to know in selecting a CO.

Would those brands in their entry level single adj models be vastly different to each other performance and valving wise?

Why no preference for those COs?

Are the single adj MCS, JRZ, AST no good?

I am interested in 8k...and there's an 8k MCS single adj kit which sounds good for $3k. Modular as well. Idk how they compare to the AST quality wise, but the AST kits I've seen are mated/valved for much softer 5/6k OTS (like Mann), so the MCS sounds more attractive.

[Captain Snooze]

Father Ubersuber, mother NYCsubaruBRZ.

[DarkSunrise]

I'm still a bit confused as to why OP doesn't just answer CSG's questions. Not sure how withholding information is in his best interest here.

Here, I'll give it a go to show how easy it is (also curious what their recommendation would be).

@CSG Mike What is the best $3k setup for me?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- What your experience level is Intermediate/solo HPDE
- What wheel sizes (size, offset) are on the car 17x8 +42 TC105N
- What tires (type, size) are being used on the car 235/40/17 Nitto NT05, may switch to same-size 595RSR next
- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above) Trying to keep the same balance as stock. Stock swaybars currently.
- If there is Aero on the car No aero
- If there is FI on the car No FI, may add JRSC later
- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.) Camber bolts, rear differential bushing inserts. Looking for coilovers with front camber plates, but if not, will add plates later. Will likely set ride height 1" lower than stock. Multi-way adjustability not crucial, ok with set & forget coilovers.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm still a bit confused as to why OP doesn't just answer CSG's questions. Not sure how withholding information is in his best interest here.

Here, I'll give it a go to show how easy it is (also curious what their recommendation would be).

@CSG Mike What is the best $3k setup for me?

You would do bets with a set of GodSpeed coilovers. Trust me, I'm a professional with years of internet research.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Fine, I'll bite:

Moton - Good. Haven't used them in a while. Not gonna happen for $3k.
Sachs - No first hand experience. Myles in the office has used them in the past on other cars. No one uses them for this chassis (earns you street cred with a very small group of people and also MAY make like difficult if something goes wrong).
AST - Good. Lots of experience but AST has undergone some reorganization recently and I'm not sure how "available" they are and how servicing them will go.
JRZ - Very good. We have a close relationship with JRZ USA and I'm always impressed. Not gonna happen for $3k.
MCS - No first hand experience but knowing who makes them I'd expect good things. Will barely come in under $3k without top mounts.

Basically if you stick to your list and want to keep it under $3k you'll be choosing between Sachs (if you can get them), AST, and MCS.

Being a guinea pig is something we do and I wouldn't recommend it to most consumers without a dedicated dealer backing you up. That would make me skip Sachs.

Between AST and MCS it's a tough call. I'd need to have some conversations with both companies before making that choice.

- Andy

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Haven't met anyone with 6 fingers yet... but your offer is better than Dave's.

Let me think about it.

-alex

Me neither, but I have a total of 10 fingers.

Originally Posted by CSG David

Both are linear and both will hit their intended rated value with a higher level of precision (smaller tolerance) than other spring manufacturers on the market. The difference is the way it responds initially. Both are fantastic springs. It's very dependent on how you want to dial in your setup and it's definitely way too specific for most people. For most, the difference is negligible. Again, we're ridiculously detailed on how things match so that's what we found out. Will you feel the difference? More than likely not, but it plays a role in the overall package of how we do things.

So how do they initiate differently? is it different the first 1/2" or maybe 1/4" of compression? And how would you vale for this difference?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Me neither, but I have a total of 10 fingers.



So how do they initiate differently? is it different the first 1/2" or maybe 1/4" of compression? And how would you vale for this difference?

Springs are typically specified by spring rates only. In other words, the amount of force necessary to compress a given spring a given distance. Different brand (and even model in some cases) respond to the initial impulse differently, and while the spring rate may be the same, the rate of response is not. For example, a 1000lb/in hyperco and 1000lb/in swift spring will both take the same amount of force to compress one inch, but the amount of time they take to react to the force and compress that one inch is different. We're talking fractions of a second, but when it comes to dampers, this is a significant amount. To put it in perspective, if you drive over a small bump at 70mph, how much time does it take for your suspension to compress and decompress as it goes over that bump? A tiny fraction of a second.

When we custom valve dampers, we have to account for the specific spring being used to properly match the damper curves to the spring. A lot of vendors offer "spring upgrades" to less expensive dampers, without actually knowing if the dampers match the spring upgrades well. Sometimes they get lucky and the combination happens to work well, and other times they're not.

[DarkSunrise]

@CSG Mike Now that I took the time to type out those responses, I actually do want your recommendation on a ~$3k coilover for me

RCE T2 with 400/400 springs plus cash in my pocket?
Ohlin R&T?
Save up for Tein SRC?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- What your experience level is Intermediate/solo HPDE
- What wheel sizes (size, offset) are on the car 17x8 +42 TC105N
- What tires (type, size) are being used on the car 235/40/17 Nitto NT05, may switch to same-size 595RSR next
- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above) Trying to keep the same balance as stock. Stock swaybars currently.
- If there is Aero on the car No aero
- If there is FI on the car No FI, may add JRSC later
- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.) Camber bolts, rear differential bushing inserts. Looking for coilovers with front camber plates, but if not, will add plates later. Will likely set ride height 1" lower than stock. Multi-way adjustability not crucial, ok with set & forget coilovers.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Fine, I'll bite:

Moton - Good. Haven't used them in a while. Not gonna happen for $3k.
Sachs - No first hand experience. Myles in the office has used them in the past on other cars. No one uses them for this chassis (earns you street cred with a very small group of people and also MAY make like difficult if something goes wrong).
AST - Good. Lots of experience but AST has undergone some reorganization recently and I'm not sure how "available" they are and how servicing them will go.
JRZ - Very good. We have a close relationship with JRZ USA and I'm always impressed. Not gonna happen for $3k.
MCS - No first hand experience but knowing who makes them I'd expect good things. Will barely come in under $3k without top mounts.

Basically if you stick to your list and want to keep it under $3k you'll be choosing between Sachs (if you can get them), AST, and MCS.

Being a guinea pig is something we do and I wouldn't recommend it to most consumers without a dedicated dealer backing you up. That would make me skip Sachs.

Between AST and MCS it's a tough call. I'd need to have some conversations with both companies before making that choice.

- Andy

Thanks Andy!

This is EXACTLY the type of reply I am looking for. Ie: diverse reasons and not all all neccesarily technical.

This helps greatly.

My closest decision would be the entry MCS, with a close 2nd to AST (maybe R&T)..based on my budget, the brand's and company's current standing and also history, and of course quality and technical engineering.

JRZ and Moton are too high budget and Moton (I think) doesn't even offer single adj.

Sachs would be too much trouble considering it's rarity(new'ness) and low or lack of support in the US.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm still a bit confused as to why OP doesn't just answer CSG's questions. Not sure how withholding information is in his best interest here.

Here, I'll give it a go to show how easy it is (also curious what their recommendation would be).

@CSG Mike What is the best $3k setup for me?

Thanks. I totally understand you.

But...in all honesty, my answers and anyone else's answers would be very similar to yours (and mine are VERY similar to your answers actually). Unless, one was building a super high hp car or a competition track only car with specific goals (which I never said I was doing). Also, take into consideration a $3k budget, the choices of CO will be even more limited and will still be the same depending more on vendor bias.

I guarantee a vendor will always recommend their same coilover preference given budget constraints due to their favorite brand they have experience in...and NOT because of tires/aero/power/suspension mods.

I guarantee, especially with a $3k budget, the answer of CO recommendations will always be the same with each vendor...due to budget and favorite and experience with, rather than other factors.

The answer will always be Tein SRC, RCE T2 (I'm considering these too; look great) or R&T....irdk how tires, experience, susp mods, power, aero, etc will honestly change that answer! LOL!

OKAY...let's say my answers were exactly the same as darksunrise...except I added a rear and front lip spoiler...would this honestly change a $3k CO decision??!? I think not!

It's the truth

[Racecomp Engineering]

For what it's worth, I really like Ohlins R&T but we don't recommend them to everyone.

Naturally we like our RCE T2s as well but we don't automatically recommend them to everyone either.

We sell a variety of coilovers and in the almost 10 years I've worked here (holy crap I'm getting old) we've never tried to have 1 "go to" coilover for every customer per price point.

Outside of budget...intended use (including tire choice) and driver background is a big deciding factor.

- Andy

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

This is EXACTLY the type of reply I am looking for. Ie: diverse reasons and not all all neccesarily technical.
.

The problem is your question started out as a very general question, and half the coilover options you listed were beyond your $3k budget.

So at face value, it looks like you have no idea what you want. And even after questions on driver ability, there's still a lot of gray area left.

Maybe next time, start a $3k budget question with coilovers that will actually cost $3k? I saw JRZ lumped with $3k and thought to myself... "is that $3k minimum budget or $3k maximum?"

I'm sure someone else thought the same, hence all the wildly different opinions.

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

@CSG Mike Now that I took the time to type out those responses, I actually do want your recommendation on a ~$3k coilover for me

RCE T2 with 400/400 springs plus cash in my pocket?
Ohlin R&T?
Save up for Tein SRC?

RCE T2, KW V3, proper camber plates, and perhaps a softer spring in the front.

Saving a little more for SRCs wouldn't be a bad idea, as the cost isn't too much more.

I'd pass on the R&T, as you'll outgrow them as you continue to drive.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Thanks. I totally understand you.

But...in all honesty, my answers and anyone else's answers would be very similar to yours (and mine are VERY similar to your answers actually). Unless, one was building a super high hp car or a competition track only car with specific goals (which I never said I was doing). Also, take into consideration a $3k budget, the choices of CO will be even more limited and will still be the same depending more on vendor bias.

I guarantee a vendor will always recommend their same coilover preference given budget constraints due to their favorite brand they have experience in...and NOT because of tires/aero/power/suspension mods.

I guarantee, especially with a $3k budget, the answer of CO recommendations will always be the same with each vendor...due to budget and favorite and experience with, rather than other factors.

I resent this, because you're completely wrong about CSG and RCE. You should take note that we actually take the time to answer questions, and interact with people on the board, not just make vendor posts in the marketplace. In fact, for that matter, I don't make vendor posts at all, but I'm technically not an employee either; I just happen to be marked as a vendor. I make opinion and informational posts, not sales posts.

I have zero issues with telling people they're wrong, because I'm not here to sell parts. I'm not here to tell people what they want to here. I will tell them my opinions when asked, and I will back my opinions with results from testing.

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

The answer will always be Tein SRC, RCE T2 (I'm considering these too; look great) or R&T....irdk how tires, experience, susp mods, power, aero, etc will honestly change that answer! LOL!

Because... those options are tried and proven. Can you provide any counterexamples to this? I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

OKAY...let's say my answers were exactly the same as darksunrise...except I added a rear and front lip spoiler...would this honestly change a $3k CO decision??!? I think not!

Yes it would. Now your aero balance would be heavily understeer biased. (Rear wing?) If you only added a front lip spoiler, then you've be a bit oversteer biased, depending on model. Experience will affect how much this is weighted into a recommendation.

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

It's the truth

Only in your interpretation.