Bilstein B6 + Tarmac Springs + Raceseng Cascam

[Butterballz]

Hello ya'll,

So this was the setup I was going to run but noticed that there is a small gap between the Raceseng spring perch with the Tarmac springs. It's enough so that the spring can spin when the shocks are fully extended.

Has anyone ran this setup but with Bilstein B8 shocks? Is the shorter extended length enough to keep the springs captive compared to the B6?

This is quite a pickle I ran into. Wish I knew this before buying the B6.

Thanks!

Update for all those looking at this thread in the future

Bilstein B6 will not work with Tarmac springs, and Raceseng Cascam. You should purchase the B8 set instead as the shorter extended length will keep the springs captive when full droop.

[idkwhatimdoing]

Originally Posted by Butterballz

Hello ya'll,



So this was the setup I was going to run but noticed that there is a small gap between the Raceseng spring perch with the Tarmac springs. It's enough so that the spring can spin when the shocks are fully extended.



Has anyone ran this setup but with Bilstein B8 shocks? Is the shorter extended length enough to keep the springs captive compared to the B6?



This is quite a pickle I ran into. Wish I knew this before buying the B6.



Thanks!

Have you tried more preload?


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[Butterballz]

Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing

Have you tried more preload?


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Unfortunately that's not possible. The Raceseng spring perch bushing stops higher than the spring perch. So imagine without springs, the spring perch goes on the shock, then the perch bushing, but there is a gap between the bottom of the bushing with the top of the spring perch. The bushing can't go any lower.

[finch1750]

@Racecomp Engineering could help I imagine. They are great to talk to on the phone so maybe give them a call tomorrow if you don't have an answer yet.

[idkwhatimdoing]

Originally Posted by Butterballz

Unfortunately that's not possible. The Raceseng spring perch bushing stops higher than the spring perch. So imagine without springs, the spring perch goes on the shock, then the perch bushing, but there is a gap between the bottom of the bushing with the top of the spring perch. The bushing can't go any lower.

Ah I gotcha. That’s interesting.. theres the spring perch hole and the bushing should be flanged, where the bottom portion of it fits into the spring perch hole. Not quite sure how the Bilsteins work, I have Ohlins. In my past there have been spacers I somehow forgot to install, maybe send pics?


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[Butterballz]

Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing

Ah I gotcha. That’s interesting.. theres the spring perch hole and the bushing should be flanged, where the bottom portion of it fits into the spring perch hole. Not quite sure how the Bilsteins work, I have Ohlins. In my past there have been spacers I somehow forgot to install, maybe send pics?


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Mad gap.

[Butterballz]

Originally Posted by Qadthane

I paired RCE Tarmac springs with Raceseng camber plates. The lowering spring combined with the reduced stack height of the camber plate left the spring not captive when at full droop. The B8 damper, with its reduced droop travel, held the spring captive. If you think you may add camber plates later, going with B8's now may be wise. I'm not saying the B8 is better; I'm just putting info out there in case it is helpful.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

It's a great set-up with a lot of happy people running that combo.



This would be the reason to get B8's, otherwise stick with B6. You may want the camber plates if you go to 245s.

We do have a our Bilstein/GTWORX coilovers coming out this spring...little bit firmer springs (but great valving) and a little more expensive than the strut + spring combo.

- Andrew

Just saw this in another thread. Looks like I'll need to get a set of B8's.

[NyX_Nick]

Just out of curiosity, would you be able to tell me how much extra clearance the cascams would add between spring perch and tire in the front? I like the idea of coilovers but this car being my daily, and living in the North East, I'm trying to avoid something that will get destroyed by the salt on our roads, and something that needs to be rebuilt every few years

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[idkwhatimdoing]

Originally Posted by Butterballz

Mad gap.

Your springs have nicer paint than my car..
That’s very odd how that happens, based on what I can see is happening, maybe try adding some rubber spring perches above and below the spring (like the ones that sit on top of the stock springs on the stock struts) in an effort to raise the spring height, thusly raising the mounting position of the spring perch? I’m sure Raceseng knows what they’re doing, Jarrett is a very helpful and will attend to your concerns... I’d recommend contacting him through the company’s main email.


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[Racecomp Engineering]

Did you ever try using the Raceseng plates with the OEM upper spring perch?

The Raceseng spring perch is great, but our RCE springs were designed around the OEM parts which is why this issue exists.

But yes the Bilstein B8s would solve the problem.

- Andrew

[jamal]

That looks like play between the strut shoulder, spring perch, and top mount.

So, remove the spring for a second, and stack everything on the strut the way it's supposed to go, snug the top bolt down. Is there any play or movement with the bearing, adapter, and spring perch? If so you need an extra spacer or something in there.

[Butterballz]

Originally Posted by NyX_Nick

Just out of curiosity, would you be able to tell me how much extra clearance the cascams would add between spring perch and tire in the front? I like the idea of coilovers but this car being my daily, and living in the North East, I'm trying to avoid something that will get destroyed by the salt on our roads, and something that needs to be rebuilt every few years

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Sorry couldn't tell you. Never had these installed.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Did you ever try using the Raceseng plates with the OEM upper spring perch?

The Raceseng spring perch is great, but our RCE springs were designed around the OEM parts which is why this issue exists.

But yes the Bilstein B8s would solve the problem.

- Andrew

I have not but I really like the Raceseng spring perch so I'm going with B8's. Luckily Bilstein shocks seem to be out of stock everywhere so I was able to cancel my order I made in January except the one that shipped .

Originally Posted by jamal

That looks like play between the strut shoulder, spring perch, and top mount.

So, remove the spring for a second, and stack everything on the strut the way it's supposed to go, snug the top bolt down. Is there any play or movement with the bearing, adapter, and spring perch? If so you need an extra spacer or something in there.

There will be play since the adapter rests on a ledge on the shock rod thing so it's unable to go lower. The spring perch will always be lower than the spring perch because of it and with the shorter spring, it creates a gap.

[wheelhaus]

I had the Raceseng plates with RCE yellows on OEM shocks and everything fit perfectly. The B6's appear to need a longer spring to apply preload to the spring perch?

FYI if they haven't changed the design in recent years, the spring perches may bind against the bottom of the camber plate or the protruding screw shanks near full lock if you're dialed back for additional caster.

[Butterballz]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

I had the Raceseng plates with RCE yellows on OEM shocks and everything fit perfectly. The B6's appear to need a longer spring to apply preload to the spring perch?

FYI if they haven't changed the design in recent years, the spring perches may bind against the bottom of the camber plate or the protruding screw shanks near full lock if you're dialed back for additional caster.

Were you using the Raceseng spring perch or the OEM. Also, did yours have the longer bolts like in the thread below? Mine are shorter so I hope I don't run into any issues.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2392139

Originally Posted by Qadthane

I'll put this info here in case it pops in someones search later and can be helpful. The decreased stack height of Raceseng cascam plates when combined with stock dampers leaves more space than RCE Yellows fill when the dampers are uncompressed. There is roughly 1/8 of an inch of play when the suspension is unloaded; enough that the spring can easily be rotated all the way around leaving it in an incorrect position on the lower spring perch when the car is lowered off the jack. I went over everything again last night to make sure there were no issues with my installation causing this. Everything was correct.

tl;dr Raceseng cascam plates on stock dampers with RCE yellows leaves slop in the spring when the suspension is hanging.

Also saw this post in another thread. Seems like he had issues with spring on staying captive with the same setup as you had.