Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by illmatic_frs

@DAEMANO you're not helping us wait-listers with all of your marketing! Curb the enthusiasm please!

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

ummmmm no.

Drove in to work today and the drive is still the absolute best part of my day. The chassis is wonderful and handles the additional power like it was made for it. When you get your kit installed and broken in, you won't be disappointed.

[VeganGirl]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

ummmmm no.

Drove in to work today and the drive is still the absolute best part of my day. The chassis is wonderful and handles the additional power like it was made for it. When you get your kit installed and broken in, you won't be disappointed.

Could you explain more about how it feels when drive it? I drive my boyfriends supercharged by kraftwerks and I love the way it feels and how it takes off instantly, does this give a similar feel or is it only power up high ? I don't think I quiet understand how it works to have boost for "1.5" minutes, what does that means exactly?

I am looking to get some form of Hp gains in August and I was just going to buy a super charger, should this also be an option for me? This concept seems really cool

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by VeganGirl

Could you explain more about how it feels when drive it? I drive my boyfriends supercharged by kraftwerks and I love the way it feels and how it takes off instantly, does this give a similar feel or is it only power up high ? I don't think I quiet understand how it works to have boost for "1.5" minutes, what does that means exactly?

I am looking to get some form of Hp gains in August and I was just going to buy a super charger, should this also be an option for me? This concept seems really cool

Depending on how much boost your and what fuel your BF is running will determine how the Phantom kit will feel in comparison. Generally speaking, the Phantom equipped car will be quicker from 0 to about 70-80 MPH depending on traction mostly due to having more available torque up until that point. After which the Kraftwerks equipped car will pull away. There was actually a video taken of nlowell (Kraftwerks SC on CA91 gas) running vs. Sojhinn (Phantom ESC + e85) earlier in the thread.

Driving a car with so much low end and mid-range torque feels fantastic. The boost comes on faster than most Turbocharged cars I've driven (the Phantom only has about 250 ms of lag before full boost). It feels like driving a car with a bigger motor (2.5L - 3.0L motor) all while keeping the same low weight. It won't plant you in your seat, but there is definitely a good progressive shove in your backside, especially 2-4th gear and especially for passengers.

The Phantom ESC runs off electricity that is stored in a set of batteries for use by the supercharger only. When boost is needed, the batteries dump their electricity into the supercharger motor to compress air and force it into the engine. When you lift your foot from the throttle pedal, the Phantom ESC will begin to re-charge the batteries using your stock alternator. The Phantom provides full boost for quite some time taking the car well above 120 MPH while the stored electricity is available. When the stored electricity runs out, boost is no longer added, and the car is running on normal engine power as the Phantom beings to recharge the batteries. Recharging to ~90% capacity takes a few seconds. From 90-100% capacity a bit longer. Videos of people driving their Phantom equipped cars are available on Youtube so you can see the discharge/recharge cycles in action.

With all that being said, there's little to no chance of getting a new Phantom kit by August. If a used one comes up, you might be able to snatch it by paying close attention to the forums. If you're willing to wait through the waiting list, you'll get something unique, low cost, that doesn't require a lot of time or labor to install and remove. It's a LONG wait though. Still, while waiting you can still upgrade your car with tune + header + exhaust + e85 + suspension + wheels/tires and all crazy cosmetic mods that can be found for this platform. It's truly a great car and Rob's Phantom ESC makes it even better.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by VeganGirl

Could you explain more about how it feels when drive it? I drive my boyfriends supercharged by kraftwerks and I love the way it feels and how it takes off instantly, does this give a similar feel or is it only power up high ? I don't think I quiet understand how it works to have boost for "1.5" minutes, what does that means exactly?

I am looking to get some form of Hp gains in August and I was just going to buy a super charger, should this also be an option for me? This concept seems really cool

I know you and I'm local. Next time at a CF86 meet I'll take you out. I really don't think you'll be that impressed though in this summer heat it really kills performance. What he said about keeping up until 70-80mph. I doubt it very very much. After first gear the KW will be pulling hard unless shitty driver. Take mine as an unbaised opinion. Not sure if these guys have ever rode in a conventional SC 86 before...I mean its only 220-230 hp max. Most SC are 270+.

Also yes I have been on the wait list over a year and still nothing. I happened to get mine used. You should just forget about this completely as the chance of getting one is so low.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by stevo585

I know you and I'm local. Next time at a CF86 meet I'll take you out. I really don't think you'll be that impressed though in this summer heat it really kills performance. What he said about keeping up until 70-80mph. I doubt it very very much. After first gear the KW will be pulling hard unless shitty driver. Take mine as an unbaised opinion. Not sure if these guys have ever rode in a conventional SC 86 before...I mean its only 220-230 hp max. Most SC are 270+.

Also yes I have been on the wait list over a year and still nothing. I happened to get mine used. You should just forget about this completely as the chance of getting one is so low.

Agree with this assessment. The Phantom is without a doubt stronger than a conventional towards the bottom of the band due to the instant torque but that advantage dies of rather quick. The only exception being if running perhaps against a sprintex kit that's non intercooled. Against that it's essentially neck and neck. Still fun for the money though-no doubt.

[Sojhinn]

All I can say is be patient and hopefully something new may show up soon.

Also the later iterations are significantly better than the earlier iterations of the phantom.


For example my first phantom struggled to produce more then 4 psi.

However the last system I was running was easily pushing over 5 psi and ended around 3 psi at top rpms.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by stevo585

I know you and I'm local. Next time at a CF86 meet I'll take you out. I really don't think you'll be that impressed though in this summer heat it really kills performance. What he said about keeping up until 70-80mph. I doubt it very very much. After first gear the KW will be pulling hard unless shitty driver. Take mine as an unbaised opinion. Not sure if these guys have ever rode in a conventional SC 86 before...I mean its only 220-230 hp max. Most SC are 270+.

Also yes I have been on the wait list over a year and still nothing. I happened to get mine used. You should just forget about this completely as the chance of getting one is so low.

Woah interesting post. I don't know where you're coming from with the tone. Look, max HP does not trump area under the curve at the speeds and power levels we're talking about (0-70/80 MPH). You can speculate about what or what not you think people have rode/driven. That's kind of worthless though.

Where I'm coming from is 3+ yrs on my 2013 FR-S with 2+ years of Phantom ownership and lots of drives 86's with many configurations. Also, I am only an owner, I have no dog or stake in Phantom Superchargers whatsoever, so you can cut the "bias" talk outside of being satisfied with what I bought so long ago.

Still, anecdotes are one thing, stats are another, so how about multiple 86's on the same hot/humid dyno on the same day with the same operator? You've hopefully looked closely at this post as I've pointed it out to you before. So I gotta ask, where is your information coming from? I noticed you having some issues with the v1.0 kit that you're running. If this is coloring your perspective, so be it, just let that be known as well. Also, I'd hope that if you're offering demos with it, that you're disclosing to people that's an older kit that's not currently being sold.


Dyno Day at Church Auto
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=136

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=93180&page=5

Results
- Full spreadsheet is here as well as full lists of everyone's mods (even more cars in the spreadsheet than are on the graph 21 cars total).
http://1drv.ms/1ExGyBX



My dyno from that day...


Don't want to get into some kind of flame-war with you but I'm also not going to stay silent while you trash what I have to say. If that wasn't your intention, hey maybe ask a few questions before making accusations about ignorance. You can compare area under the curve results for standard Kraftwerks kits vs. the above and do common calculations to see what setup might arrive at 70-80 first OR simply look for the video of nlowell running his Supercharged car vs. a Phantom ESC car, whichever you like. What you'll find will probably surprise you.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

All I can say is be patient and hopefully something new may show up soon.

Also the later iterations are significantly better than the earlier iterations of the phantom.


For example my first phantom struggled to produce more then 4 psi.

However the last system I was running was easily pushing over 5 psi and ended around 3 psi at top rpms.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow that is a big difference between V1 and the latest at least up top. Looking at the torque app boost is very dependent of atmospheric conditions.

I seem to not have your issues though. Hot and humid is 3.8-4.5 psi and cold and dry is 4.2-4.8. Up top Ecutek was only seeing 1.5psi at redline in the "cold and dry" 45 F weather.

I do have the latest batteries which probably helps alot more than anything else. Probably the biggest reason the V2/3 is so much better.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Woah interesting post. I don't know where you're coming from with the tone. Look, max HP does not trump area under the curve at the speeds and power levels we're talking about (0-70/80 MPH). You can speculate about what or what not you think people have rode/driven. That's kind of worthless though.

Where I'm coming from is 3+ yrs on my 2013 FR-S with 2+ years of Phantom ownership and lots of drives 86's with many configurations. Also, I am only an owner, I have no dog or stake in Phantom Superchargers whatsoever, so you can cut the "bias" talk outside of being satisfied with what I bought so long ago.

Still, anecdotes are one thing, stats are another, so how about multiple 86's on the same hot/humid dyno on the same day with the same operator? You've hopefully looked closely at this post as I've pointed it out to you before. So I gotta ask, where is your information coming from? I noticed you having some issues with the v1.0 kit that you're running. If this is coloring your perspective, so be it, just let that be known as well. Also, I'd hope that if you're offering demos with it, that you're disclosing to people that's an older kit that's not currently being sold.


Dyno Day at Church Auto
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=136

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=93180&page=5

Results
- Full spreadsheet is here as well as full lists of everyone's mods (even more cars in the spreadsheet than are on the graph 21 cars total).
http://1drv.ms/1ExGyBX



My dyno from that day...


Don't want to get into some kind of flame-war with you but I'm also not going to stay silent while you trash what I have to say. If that wasn't your intention, hey maybe ask a few questions before making accusations about ignorance. You can compare area under the curve results for standard Kraftwerks kits vs. the above and do common calculations to see what setup might arrive at 70-80 first OR simply look for the video of nlowell running his Supercharged car vs. a Phantom ESC car, whichever you like. What you'll find will probably surprise you.

First of all its just my opinion from my experience. Your defensiveness sorta already implys your bias. Which is ok its a good system. I too do not wish to argue or cause any disrespect per say. Its just the internet...

I'll take a look at the video again (I would believe it might keep up until 60 but not in third gear). There is so many variables as you know. Like driver skill for one. Tuning the other (e.g. 91 vs e85). This low end torque argument (although I agree) only applys to a centrifugal SC as well. PD Kits like the edelbrock are more responsive and its obvious from the higher load deltas seen at WOT. Even the Centri once at 5k and higher will accelerate so much faster which is 2nd gear and up. These kits local to me trap ~110mph. As far as I know the ESC does low 100s to 103 I think one person did iirc.

Yes I have a V1 kit but no real issues (not sure what you mean) it makes over 4psi most of the time depending on start rpm as you know. Only problem is the voltmeter went out. Otherwise I just have noticed weather effects it alot could just be a florida thing alot of you guys live in cooler areas or Canada. I have also noticed it likes e85 ALOT more likely due to the greater chemical cooling effect.

You say the latest kit is alot better. Only in initial response right? Its doesn't flow more or hold boost better right? Or does it? That maybe my disconnect.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by stevo585

First of all its just my opinion from my experience. Your defensiveness sorta already implys your bias. Which is ok its a good system. I too do not wish to argue or cause any disrespect per say. Its just the internet...

I'll take a look at the video again (I would believe it might keep up until 60 but not in third gear). There is so many variables as you know. Like driver skill for one. Tuning the other (e.g. 91 vs e85). This low end torque argument (although I agree) only applys to a centrifugal SC as well. PD Kits like the edelbrock are more responsive and its obvious from the higher load deltas seen at WOT. Even the Centri once at 5k and higher will accelerate so much faster which is 2nd gear and up. These kits local to me trap ~110mph. As far as I know the ESC does low 100s to 103 I think one person did iirc.

Yes I have a V1 kit but no real issues (not sure what you mean) it makes over 4psi most of the time depending on start rpm as you know. Only problem is the voltmeter went out. Otherwise I just have noticed weather effects it alot could just be a florida thing alot of you guys live in cooler areas or Canada. I have also noticed it likes e85 ALOT more likely due to the greater chemical cooling effect.

You say the latest kit is alot better. Only in initial response right? Its doesn't flow more or hold boost better right? Or does it? That maybe my disconnect.

Just to get this out of the way.

A: "I like my kit because A, B, and C"
B:"You're full of it and clearly have no idea what you're talking about"
A: "I said what I said because A, B, and C"
B: "You're being defensive and that proves my point"...

No, it doesn't. At all. Whatsoever.

Claiming someone is "defensive" in a conversation or debate is a very simple and transparent ad-hominem technique that is often used to deflect away from a person's inability to respond to the topic at hand.

For the rest...

It's ok that you don't "think/believe" what I saw and have seen. I was answering @VeganGirl about my impression of what my car can probably do vs. a Kraftwerks kit as I've experienced it (also what I've seen other Phantom kits do). You're correct 0-60 is a poor measure of performance, but once again she asked my impressions and spoke of her BF's Kraftwerks kit, so a comparison of any type is natural. I used my experiences and data to form that impression and answer her question.

Not your car v1.0 kit compared to other SC kits or types (Edlebrock, Innovate).

I've noticed your posts about feeling down on power and your electrical issues. If you feel those are resolved now great. I'm glad. The Phantom is pretty reliable for what it's asked to do and what state of development it is in. If those issues are coloring your opinion that's ok too, it's an opinion. Don't act like I can be sooo biased, and you, not.

I live in Southern California, not Canada, and at roughly sea level. So does Sojhinn. The dyno day I posted above was pulled at ~80 degrees with 70% humidity just outside of Los Angeles. It gets even hotter than that here, but Long Beach (where the dyno is located) is a costal town. All cars that participated took a performance hit under those conditions and the dyno results reflected accordingly. In California with similar heat and Florida with even greater humidity, e85 helps a lot. On the chart above BRZ-Y was running a v1.0 Phantom kit on CA91. The differences easy to see and are palpable.

The latest kit has a lighter compressor wheel (less lag, better responsiveness), has greater heat tolerance (for extended use), and importantly provides slightly more boost across all RPMs (about .5 psi). Which, as Fenton noted "Every psi counts". Why? Because the Phantom has nearly no parasitic loss in comparison to traditional F.I. I think it's likely that my car would pull harder than yours given those improvements. Rob may be willing to upgrade you for a cost if you contact him about it. I have no problem with people not understanding or disagreeing with me about the kit. I do have a problem with someone telling another forum member that I'm full of bias and ignorance without any proof other than ad-hom attacks. That's why I post often, offer rides/demos and am more than willing to prove what I say.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Just to get this out of the way.

A: "I like my kit because A, B, and C"
B:"You're full of it and clearly have no idea what you're talking about"
A: "I said what I said because A, B, and C"
B: "You're being defensive and that proves my point"...

No, it doesn't. At all. Whatsoever.

Claiming someone is "defensive" in a conversation or debate is a very simple and transparent ad-hominem technique that is often used to deflect away from a person's inability to respond to the topic at hand.

For the rest...

It's ok that you don't "think/believe" what I saw and have seen. I was answering @VeganGirl about my impression of what my car can probably do vs. a Kraftwerks kit as I've experienced it (also what I've seen other Phantom kits do). You're correct 0-60 is a poor measure of performance, but once again she asked my impressions and spoke of her BF's Kraftwerks kit, so a comparison of any type is natural. I used my experiences and data to form that impression and answer her question.

Not your car v1.0 kit compared to other SC kits or types (Edlebrock, Innovate).

I've noticed your posts about feeling down on power and your electrical issues. If you feel those are resolved now great. I'm glad. The Phantom is pretty reliable for what it's asked to do and what state of development it is in. If those issues are coloring your opinion that's ok too, it's an opinion. Don't act like I can be sooo biased, and you, not.

I live in Southern California, not Canada, and at roughly sea level. So does Sojhinn. The dyno day I posted above was pulled at ~80 degrees with 70% humidity just outside of Los Angeles. It gets even hotter than that here, but Long Beach (where the dyno is located) is a costal town. All cars that participated took a performance hit under those conditions and the dyno results reflected accordingly. In California with similar heat and Florida with even greater humidity, e85 helps a lot. On the chart above BRZ-Y was running a v1.0 Phantom kit on CA91. The differences easy to see and are palpable.

The latest kit has a lighter compressor wheel (less lag, better responsiveness), has greater heat tolerance (for extended use), and importantly provides slightly more boost across all RPMs (about .5 psi). Which, as Fenton noted "Every psi counts". Why? Because the Phantom has nearly no parasitic loss in comparison to traditional F.I. I think it's likely that my car would pull harder than yours given those improvements. Rob may be willing to upgrade you for a cost if you contact him about it. I have no problem with people not understanding or disagreeing with me about the kit. I do have a problem with someone telling another forum member that I'm full of bias and ignorance without any proof other than ad-hom attacks. That's why I post often, offer rides/demos and am more than willing to prove what I say.

Ok well will just have to agree to disagree. I also never said the word "ignorant" nor implied imo. My minor issues have had no effect on my opinion either. Like you I was stating my experience with my car.

Remember I'm in florida with nice 93 octane and no Carb (everyone is catless). So I may just see/experience a bit more powerful cars. Was that KW in the video on a carb tune 91 octane? And if the ESC was on e85 that right there is a bit unfair to me.

I'm also not the only one who agreed weather affects its performance alot (my kit still makes the normal psi so thats my conclusion). Also my quarter mile traps are down alot about 99mph vs 101 in winter. NA I trapped 96-97mph. Be nice if we had more quarter mile data as to me that's a better indication of performance. Have you ran? Be curious to see what the new kits do.

If the new compressor is that much better then I may have to get a quote.

[stevo585]

I think in reality this is all irrelevant to the OP because you can't buy the kit anyways. What is the wait list time? Close to 2 years now I assume. Its been 16 months for me and I'm still about 20-30 people down.

[WNDSRFR]

Hey Stevo
I'm over in Cocoa and have owned both the V1 and the V2. And I agree that the V2 is of course superior. Whenever the weather cools off a bit I challenge you to a race at Bithlo. Have to get some new tires though. The ones I have now would just spin all the way down the strip.

[VeganGirl]

I guess this can't really be an option for me as far as the wait list goes. I have already done some supporting mods of force induction, my suspension, rims, tires, and brakes soon. That's why I am already ready for it in August . I think I will most likely just pick up a kraftwerks system . Steve I'd still like to ride in yours at next meet if possible just cause I want to see the difference I've been in an edlebrock and kraftwerks and they both feel the same to me