Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[p1l0t]

Yeah but will a router get you LAID!?

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[ScoobsMcGee]

I mean... kinda?

[Teseo]

Im using badoo

[p1l0t]

#forSmash...

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[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

Hard to keep up here if you have a life...........

Fan will make no difference unless you are sitting in front of it.

Temperature change in room will be insignificant since:
1. The heat exchange between that small amount of ice and the room air will be very small , and
2. The electric motor on the fan will generate a small amount of added heat for the room air.

Bonus - the extra energy in the room comes from the electricity consumed by the fan.


BTW - my engineering background has nothing to do with this.

Well now, there Silver Supra ....... you must not have an electrical engineering background ........ because there wouldn't be any "extra" energy in the room, due to the fan.

The electrons come into the room from the wall, via a wire, make the fan go round and round, then go, via another wire, back into the wall, they don't hang out in the room .......


humfrz

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well now, there Silver Supra ....... you must not have an electrical engineering background ........ because there wouldn't be any "extra" energy in the room, due to the fan.

The electrons come into the room from the wall, via a wire, make the fan go round and round, then go, via another wire, back into the wall, they don't hang out in the room .......


humfrz

Well there, yourself. I already stated :
"The electric motor on the fan will generate a small amount of added heat for the room air."

Heat/thermal energy transfer that would not exist if the fan were turned off.

Of course, the incremental amounts of heat and energy we are discussing are trivially insignificant - which is what old farts do!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

Well there, yourself. I already stated :
"The electric motor on the fan will generate a small amount of added heat for the room air."

Heat/thermal energy transfer that would not exist if the fan were turned off.

Of course, the incremental amounts of heat and energy we are discussing are trivially insignificant - which is what old farts do!

OK, speaking about old farts discussing trivial things, I figure we need a third opinion on this subject, so, I've invited @Ultramaroon to join the conversation ......


humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cjd

The room door or the fridge door? Are the conditions around the rooms also identical? And what if it happens to be the door into summer?

Originally Posted by cjd

I don't want to work for you, sounds like a crappy environment.

That wasn't snark - I think i work in a different industry though, so that may play a role. When interviewing others, I'd dock anyone that doesn't request clarification on an unclear directive such as you gave. And if I were the candidate, I'd be watching for a good response to my last query... Not to mention a willingness to clarify.

It's also in how the requests for clarification are posed. I don't believe your first question was in earnest since in this thread we were clearly discussing open fridge doors. Your second question borders on legitimacy but being bookended by your first and last, you really can't expect me to interpret it as anything other than contempt or lack of respect for the process. That would be a huge red flag for me. I think these are pretty universal principles.

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

As someone who just interviewed a person today, if I asked that question and received a snarky response, I'd move said person to the top of the list.

Information Security takes a... special... mindset.

A qualified engineering candidate would immediately recognize the question as a test for the grasp of a couple basic thermodynamic principles. Folks that have the courage to banter, especially with authority, are also my biggest stars. I'm a sucker for irreverence but in a professional setting, context and tact are equally important.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

OK, speaking about old farts discussing trivial things, I figure we need a third opinion on this subject, so, I've invited @Ultramaroon to join the conversation ......

Uh oh. Pressure's on.

I'd start by asking if it was appropriate to assume the room is not adiabatic and that we're starting at standard temp and pressure.

You'd probably say "Oh, yeah, sure. blah blah..."

Then I'd say given what I see in the photo, (I think the fan was running) it would cool the room until the water in the bowl came to thermal equilibrium with the room. Then, as the fan continued to run it would heat it again because motor inefficiency, stirring, all contributing to irreversibility, blah blah...

Am I hired? I need to take the next couple weeks off.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

A qualified engineering candidate would immediately recognize the question as a test for the grasp of a couple basic thermodynamic principles. Folks that have the courage to banter, especially with authority, are also my biggest stars. I'm a sucker for irreverence but in a professional setting, context and tact are equally important.

I have been thinking this topic over since it started and have determined I am going to use this question in future interviews for engineering candidates.
The good part is that there really is no one "right" answer but several possible replies that would give me great insight in how their brain works.

1) "Ummmm" followed by several seconds of silence then some random guess - Thanks for coming we will be in touch if we wish to proceed.

2) "I don't know the answer since there is not enough data about the heat produced vs the cooling effect. I would need more info to be able to say for sure what the impact would be" - Perfect for a product engineer where the tolerances are very low and data and specifications leave no room for assumptions.

3) "If we make some basic and relatively safe assumptions on the amount of heat created vs the cooling effect it is likely that the room will stay the same" - The ideal statement for a process engineer where many of the elements are known or can very safely be assumed. It leaves more room to be creative and thinking "outside the box" than the data driven product tasks.

4) "I would say it would stay the same but need to take some measurements and confirm my thoughts before I commit to a firm answer" - This mix of the other two would be the best of both worlds and would probably take my first vote as the successful candidate if I was looking to fill a general or plant services type engineering position (my assembly plants have engineers as the "maintenance" department).

All in all it would not be their grasp of basic thermodynamic principles that I am interested in learning (they have an engineering degree I expect them to have a good grasp on the principles) but more how they approach a task or project. I have made a couple of very serious errors in placing engineers in positions because I misjudged their approach to things but have never screwed up picking one for their actual knowledge.

I know I joke about the engineer stereotype sometimes but the reality is that I have only met a handful that were even a little bit good at banter and interaction. The ones that were good at it also the very best all round engineers I have ever worked with. Not sure if it is a schooling thing but I don't think that it is coincidence that most of those were guys that went into engineering later in life and not straight from high school to college. Again I realize it is a stereotype but most of the recent graduates or interns we bring in have the personality and sense of humour of a wet rock!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have been thinking this topic over since it started and have determined I am going to use this question in future interviews for engineering candidates.

You, sir, TOTALLY get it.

...but I've literally had people say the open fridge would cool the room. You may not feel there is a particular right answer but there is definitely a wrong one.

2 and 3 are wrong too, btw. there is no cooling, only heat exchange. It has to go somewhere, don't forget about the coils on the back of, or underneath the fridge.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Uh oh. Pressure's on.

I'd start by asking if it was appropriate to assume the room is not adiabatic and that we're starting at standard temp and pressure.

You'd probably say "Oh, yeah, sure. blah blah..."

Then I'd say given what I see in the photo, (I think the fan was running) it would cool the room until the water in the bowl came to thermal equilibrium with the room. Then, as the fan continued to run it would heat it again because motor inefficiency, stirring, all contributing to irreversibility, blah blah...

Am I hired? I need to take the next couple weeks off.

Yep, you're hired (if you would quit using them fancy words).

See there, @Silver Supra , Ultramaroon agrees with me ..... so, you are out voted ......


humfrz

[krayzie]

So which type of engineer gets paid the most? - Typical Asian Question

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have been thinking this topic over since it started and have determined I am going to use this question in future interviews for engineering candidates.
The good part is that there really is no one "right" answer but several possible replies that would give me great insight in how their brain works.

1) "Ummmm" followed by several seconds of silence then some random guess - Thanks for coming we will be in touch if we wish to proceed.

2) "I don't know the answer since there is not enough data about the heat produced vs the cooling effect. I would need more info to be able to say for sure what the impact would be" - Perfect for a product engineer where the tolerances are very low and data and specifications leave no room for assumptions.

3) "If we make some basic and relatively safe assumptions on the amount of heat created vs the cooling effect it is likely that the room will stay the same" - The ideal statement for a process engineer where many of the elements are known or can very safely be assumed. It leaves more room to be creative and thinking "outside the box" than the data driven product tasks.

4) "I would say it would stay the same but need to take some measurements and confirm my thoughts before I commit to a firm answer" - This mix of the other two would be the best of both worlds and would probably take my first vote as the successful candidate if I was looking to fill a general or plant services type engineering position (my assembly plants have engineers as the "maintenance" department).

All in all it would not be their grasp of basic thermodynamic principles that I am interested in learning (they have an engineering degree I expect them to have a good grasp on the principles) but more how they approach a task or project. I have made a couple of very serious errors in placing engineers in positions because I misjudged their approach to things but have never screwed up picking one for their actual knowledge.

I know I joke about the engineer stereotype sometimes but the reality is that I have only met a handful that were even a little bit good at banter and interaction. The ones that were good at it also the very best all round engineers I have ever worked with. Not sure if it is a schooling thing but I don't think that it is coincidence that most of those were guys that went into engineering later in life and not straight from high school to college. Again I realize it is a stereotype but most of the recent graduates or interns we bring in have the personality and sense of humour of a wet rock!

I guess, for the sake of mankind, need to get bored more often.