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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 07-30-2012, 02:18 PM   #15
yomny
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I believe there have been more than one independent shock dyno's which show the dampers are the same between the two cars. Only the spring rates are different.
"The Scion uses softer springs and stiffer shocks" Read this in a car and driver article located here third paragraph under chassis. Whatever the actual specs are i just love the way it handles from stock but i really do feel the need to drop the car lol, so lets see what the solution is.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:29 PM   #16
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"The Scion uses softer springs and stiffer shocks" Read this in a car and driver article located here third paragraph under chassis. Whatever the actual specs are i just love the way it handles from stock but i really do feel the need to drop the car lol, so lets see what the solution is.
Yes, that info was passed around it seems in the reviews, but it looks like its not the case according to actual testing. I think a lot of info can be lost in translation when communicating with Japanese, as they don't seem to be as fluent in English as most western countries.

I completely agree with you though about being hesitant on altering the suspension, without being sure you aren't going to f something up.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:03 PM   #17
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That's good to know, it really didn't make much sense to change the specs of such similar automobiles . Hopefully we get some nice reviews of vendors with their products and how they perform. I'll like to keep this neutral/oversteer feeling that car has.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:11 PM   #18
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The GT86 is even more understeer biased than the BRZ, sadly. Even then I haven'r read ay review stating that the GT86 is udersteery at all.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
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Andrew - perhaps you can post the OEM spring rate for the BRZ and 86 in your original post. It would be helpful for those "getting started" to see what they get out of the box. I have already seen some manufacturers providing really bizarre spring rates for the BRZ/86 (softer rear than front).
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #20
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Thats a good idea, I'm assuming the independent companies know what they are doing but the engineers I think knew best. The 2/3 relative ratio isn't anything like the 6/4 things we are seeing
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #21
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One more thing....

If we increase spring rates in the front and in the rear by the same factor, say 10%, this does not that the balance of the car will remain the same as stock. There are other issues at play here. The front and rear suspensions are very different and thus react differently to changes in spring rate (and ride height). So keeping the same "ratio" of spring rates front/rear does not necessarily mean you are keeping the same handling balance.

- Andrew
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by yomny View Post
I'm just afraid to really mess up the cars amazing handling characteristics, but it needs to be dropped lol. I'm seeing many companies coming out with 7/7,8/8 for front and rear rates and can't help but wonder if this will retain the stock character. The stock ride is nice and stiff, so maybe a set of coilovers with similar rates to stock(maybe a bit higher) would be great? I'll wait and see before choosing coilovers and spring rate, hopefully a few write up on different rates and their behaviors will come along
have you decided on springs yet? I also want a drop but want to keep the same feeling on the car
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #23
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I acutally went with fortune auto coilovers, with a 7/7k rate on the swift springs that i got with the coilovers. They ride exceptionally well, for a daily driver and even better at the track.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #24
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RCE, I am looking at your product again. I use a few brands on my other cars I know well, and trust, but you seem to have an angle on the subie world

let me just be sure I understand:
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb,
2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?

my end goal is EITHER
Racecomp Engineering Tarmac II coilovers or the KW3, but I need something now, and budget for the KW3 is not here yet, and I'm eager to see pricing on the tarmacs actually

thanks
gem
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmookher View Post
RCE, I am looking at your product again. I use a few brands on my other cars I know well, and trust, but you seem to have an angle on the subie world

let me just be sure I understand:
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb,
2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?

my end goal is EITHER
Racecomp Engineering Tarmac II coilovers or the KW3, but I need something now, and budget for the KW3 is not here yet, and I'm eager to see pricing on the tarmacs actually

thanks
gem
1-your coils are linear rate front and rear and both set at 250lb
correct. the progressive portion is kind of like a helper spring to keep things in contact and smooth out small bumps but for handling purposes you should consider them as linear.

2-they are wound and manufactured domestically? where? major shop? ISO?
made in the good ol' USA by Eibach.

3-Can you tell me what the grade of steel is? what do these weigh each?
http://performance-suspension.eibach...ty_unsurpassed

I'll have to get back to you on weight.


4-Do you offer any warranty over my life of ownership?
Yes, lifetime to original owner.

5-any reason why youre going soft overall on rates?
We're actually much much firmer than others up front and a little softer than most in the rear. Honestly we were surprised so many others are sooooo soft up front. Everyone else is really soft. Like real soft. The way we did things, the rear can still "work" and you can put power down easily, while the front is controlled much better and the balance is great. The front roll center is better kept in check, front dynamic alignment is better maintained, and you get better turn-in. The front end of this suspension isn't exactly a double-wishbone with perfect geometry...it's a Subaru and does need some spring rate to be controlled. With sticky tires all those other super soft front springs are gonna be sloppy and move around too much (or just ride the bumpstops...causing spring rates to spike and loss of grip). For the rear, having the rates where they are is a great combination of performance, consistency and drivability (i.e. it's easy to drive fast), comfort, and durability of the shock. The front dampers have a bit more headroom in terms of valving than the rear to be honest.


We're really, really happy with the springs. We did a couple of revisions (we were extremely fortunate to have an early start prior to the car being released thanks to Subaru of America) and feel that these fit the bill perfectly for a FUN daily driver that still sees the track or autocrosses, and they work really well with stickier tires. Springs, bushings, alignment, BAM....perfect for most users. You could later upgrade to the T2s or V3s, sell the springs, and keep everything else. OR just add the Konis and maybe some swaybars. But I do think if you're looking for something now, getting the springs and the basic foundation (bushings + alignment stuff) while you wait for a nice coilover (or the Koni option) is an awesome way to go.

- Andrew

Last edited by Racecomp Engineering; 10-23-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
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Really this is one stepping stone for you to read more authoritative material on suspension.
Could you expand on what you consider good sources of information about suspension tuning? I've read Fred Phun's book, it covers a lot of the fundamentals but seems a bit dated(I don't really need to know how De Dion tubes work) [ame="http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your-Car-Handle/dp/0912656468"]Amazon.com: How to Make Your Car Handle (9780912656465): Fred Puhn: Books[/ame]
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
have you decided on springs yet? I also want a drop but want to keep the same feeling on the car
Quote:
Originally Posted by yomny View Post
I'm just afraid to really mess up the cars amazing handling characteristics, but it needs to be dropped lol. I'm seeing many companies coming out with 7/7,8/8 for front and rear rates and can't help but wonder if this will retain the stock character. The stock ride is nice and stiff, so maybe a set of coilovers with similar rates to stock(maybe a bit higher) would be great? I'll wait and see before choosing coilovers and spring rate, hopefully a few write up on different rates and their behaviors will come along
^^THIS.

I want the RCE springs because I love the drop at .75" but I absolutely don't want to lose the tail happy nature of the stock BRZ. I don't want to change anything about the handling (maybe a little sharper). In an ideal world I could also flush up the wheels a bit AND have the drop without really losing the changing how it handles/slides...

The question is what's the magic formula?

Edited/

Last edited by iBRZ; 11-24-2012 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #28
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Maybe I'm overlooking it, but what are the spring stock rates on an FR-S?

Thx & Happy New Year, all!
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