Innovate SC Install, Testing & Tuning

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by RYU

thanks for clarifying. i was hoping i misread that.

i would not spray before the blower after seeing what meth does to the Teflon coatings on the rotors/screws. 100% water is no problem but less efficient in cooling from my own first hand experience. I'm doing this now...

There were only a few instances back in the day where a few older units had coating problems. I have been assured by someone who has been doing this for more than a decade that this doesn't happen anymore.

If you want Give Rodney a call at Alcoholinjectionsystems.com. He is an encyclopedia on meth injection. He has no alterior motive in advising people to spray pre-blower. He just sees the best results with it configured that way.

[ft_sjo]

OK, stop inventing an acronym "MAT" right here. It's either IAT or ACT. OEM's call it IAT whether it's n/a or forced induction. The problem that needs solving is how to move the IAT sensor to the right place, after the supercharger. Shouldn't be a problem for some of experienced tuners. Then the IAT-related strategies in the ECU can work properly (e.g. spark retard vs. IAT, which is crucial).

I would be very surprised if there wasn't an off-the-shelf ntc air temp sensor with a similar linearisation curve to the one built into the MAF sensor. You will want an open-element one, not solid, for faster response. Just a case of finding somewhere suitable in the plenum to mount it and patch it into the wiring loom/harness.

Let's not bodge stuff chaps!

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

There were only a few instances back in the day where a few older units had coating problems. I have been assured by someone who has been doing this for more than a decade that this doesn't happen anymore.

Teflon coatings were more prevalent in the old roots blowers in the 80s.. General consensus is that my sc12 from the 4agze has the black Teflon coatings and yeah people have killed them trying to spray precharger as well as melting the coatings by over reving the blower.

All the opcon autorotor based chargers like kennel bell, HPS, lyshom and sprintex etc have had no issues that I am aware of. One suggestion from a few of the experienced supercharger guys were spraying fuel precharger instead of using water/meth sprays.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

OK, stop inventing an acronym "MAT" right here. It's either IAT or ACT. OEM's call it IAT whether it's n/a or forced induction. The problem that needs solving is how to move the IAT sensor to the right place, after the supercharger. Shouldn't be a problem for some of experienced tuners. Then the IAT-related strategies in the ECU can work properly (e.g. spark retard vs. IAT, which is crucial).

I would be very surprised if there wasn't an off-the-shelf ntc air temp sensor with a similar linearisation curve to the one built into the MAF sensor. You will want an open-element one, not solid, for faster response. Just a case of finding somewhere suitable in the plenum to mount it and patch it into the wiring loom/harness.

Let's not bodge stuff chaps!

MAT is an industry standard term. There is even a standard OBD2 code (P1119, etc.) that reference MAT. Some vehicles do have both a IAT and a MAT, like my 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Could you point me to the same detailed IAT, MAT, ECT, OT, knock, etc. data for Vortech, HKS, AVO, etc.? I'm planning to purchase one of these FI kits and would like to compare them. I tried checking in the initial release threads but for some reason I couldn't find the detailed data logs that you say they should have released the day their kits were available for sale. In fact, I couldn't find this data anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

Please refer to this thread http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...56&postcount=2

If there is anything you want in terms of logs from the Vortech owners we are an open book.

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Dezoris and the others asking...sorry I won't be posting datalogs as that is going to have a bunch more in it than I'd like to share. But do read on because this answers much of what you're asking, at least IMO. Maybe some will post their temps when they get on track.

Some think this is an innovate marketing thread and it is not. I paid for this kit as anyone else. Yes we sell them now, but you can bet it isn't because of any great margin here. I like it enough that I will tune and install them. Though I will admit I was pleasantly surprised given how much lower the HP has been using a larger and more expensive MP62 blower on the mx-5.

Mike,

Look, while I appreciate your response it's not answering the questions. We are asking for objective data. You can strip your proprietary advanced data out of your logs to protect some of your tuning methods.

This would allow you to provide the basic data we want from your sessions in less that 5 minutes online. I don't understand why this is like pulling teeth?

[RYU]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

There were only a few instances back in the day where a few older units had coating problems. I have been assured by someone who has been doing this for more than a decade that this doesn't happen anymore.

If you want Give Rodney a call at Alcoholinjectionsystems.com. He is an encyclopedia on meth injection. He has no alterior motive in advising people to spray pre-blower. He just sees the best results with it configured that way.

I know the arguments. I've also heard from many of the diehard supporters of spraying before the blower. There's just too much contradictory information out there for me to do it. On a weekend car or even a track car that sees maybe 2000 miles a year then sure.. why not. I'll never see the wear on the rotors in my lifetime of owning that blower. However, on my daily driver i'll easily do 20,000 miles a year. While bearing rebuilds are cheap.. replacing rotors are not. It's a different ballgame and i'm not willing to take the risk but hey.. go for it!

In any case, We're digressing from the point. Still would like to hear what real world IATs this kit sees at 7psi. We'll collectively come up with a cooling solutions later.

Edit: I decided to update myself. Here are some fun pics of pre-blower meth sprayers and what happened to them No thanks.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

OK, stop inventing an acronym "MAT" right here. It's either IAT or ACT. OEM's call it IAT whether it's n/a or forced induction. The problem that needs solving is how to move the IAT sensor to the right place, after the supercharger. Shouldn't be a problem for some of experienced tuners. Then the IAT-related strategies in the ECU can work properly (e.g. spark retard vs. IAT, which is crucial).

I would be very surprised if there wasn't an off-the-shelf ntc air temp sensor with a similar linearisation curve to the one built into the MAF sensor. You will want an open-element one, not solid, for faster response. Just a case of finding somewhere suitable in the plenum to mount it and patch it into the wiring loom/harness.

Let's not bodge stuff chaps!

I used the term MAT (Manifold Air Temp) because that is what mitsubishi called the manifold air temp sensor on the Evo X. The X also had an intake air temperature sensor that was location in the MAF sensor.

As you said, with NA applications, the air temp sensor will most often be at the beginning of the intake tract. In forced induction applications it seems to depend on the manufacturer. I think at times they make assumptions about the efficiency of the turbo and inter-cooler etc and still just use a temp sensor at the beginning of the intake tract, the evo 8 and 9 was this way.

I agree it would be best to place a new sensor in the post compression air stream and wire it back into the stock harness so the compensation tables are actually useful. The sensor scale table is in the rom so it the new sensor does not have to match, just needs to be known.

[Subzero]

A new vid of the 1320 Mini with a Sprintex. This is the same S5-210 and the BRZs can be cut to the same weight if not better for the same 12.50 timeslips @ 108-109mph, IMO.

[ame]http://youtu.be/4pNqIoI0QKA[/ame]

[Adeets]

I r special. Thought it was the 250hp dyno.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Your opinion is invalid, that's innovate on e85 vs vortech on WAWA 92 gas.

@moto-mike said it was gas, not corn.

[DriftZen]

Good numbers. I really want to see this kit at higher boost levels - 10-12psi with intercooler. Any plans? Has innovate even released an intercooler/smaller pulleys yet?

[swift996]

Originally Posted by DriftZen

Good numbers. I really want to see this kit at higher boost levels - 10-12psi with intercooler. Any plans? Has innovate even released an intercooler/smaller pulleys yet?

No, not yet. The first units arrived this week. Give it some time.

[Benn0r]

The intercooled option is available in Australia, and when talking to some retailers they are kinda baffled that you guys are even running a non-intercooled option. Ill post results in the next week or so when i get the car back (on holiday at the moment) but i am hoping for some good, safe results. Hopefully you guys will get the intercooled option soon!

[PRE-Erich]

Got to install one of these Innovate kits today, very complete package, super smooth install (around 4 hours). Tuning tomorrow. Heres a link to my Facebook with a photo album.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...8656551&type=3