Killer B Motorsport 2022+ FA24 BRZ/GR86 Oil Retention Baffle Development

[nomtimesthree]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Good question! We use an advanced TPV material that is far superior to the silicone pieces, and the overseas stuff. It's OEM level of material and should last 100K miles without issue.

Another thing to note, is that this style flapper valve (originally designed and used by BMW) was made for installation on vertical baffles. Never in a horizontal application. The aftermarket got a hold of it and right or wrong, put them on everything. If you look at horizontal installs, they sag open. Not only that, but because they sag open and are installed incorrectly on a horizontal surface, the heat causes them to take a set, in the open position. This can happen after only a couple of heat cycles, rendering the flap valves functionally useless. When used correctly on a vertical surface, they only open 1-2mm.

Love this kind of info and analysis sharing you bring to the community. As a prospective customer, it makes me want to support your product.

[ballsdeep]

Is there any chance a similar baffle can be made for the first gens? The FA20 game needs KillerB!

[BioRebel]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

At this point, our experience with boxer engines: EJ, FA, and 911s. We have done more testing on these engines than anyone else in the industry. With that experience, we have a good understanding for where oil goes under various conditions. Although, that in no way means you skip testing I would bet $1,000 that this part will definitely not make things worse

Didn't mean to imply y'all don't know your stuff. But I would love to see a before/after video with some telemetry like we saw in the other thread. I know you might not be able to provide this now but I'd love to see it eventually.

[bradsm87]

This somewhat explains why it takes so long for RTV sealant to dislodge and needs hard driving for some of the bits to dislodge. If oil is ending up in the front cover area, hard cornering transitions would likely dislodge excess sealant over time.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by ballsdeep

Is there any chance a similar baffle can be made for the first gens? The FA20 game needs KillerB!

Great question, but I don't have an answer. We have never had a Gen 1 FA20 BRZ engine here for development. If anyone has one with the pan off, we can compare pics and see how close, or far off, they might be. Based on how Subaru makes changes over the years and the production methods, I would not be surprised if they were very similar, but I am totally speculating.

Originally Posted by BioRebel

Didn't mean to imply y'all don't know your stuff. But I would love to see a before/after video with some telemetry like we saw in the other thread. I know you might not be able to provide this now but I'd love to see it eventually.

Same here. Data always rules the day

Originally Posted by bradsm87

This somewhat explains why it takes so long for RTV sealant to dislodge and needs hard driving for some of the bits to dislodge. If oil is ending up in the front cover area, hard cornering transitions would likely dislodge excess sealant over time.

It's everywhere in the engine! Many assume addressing the lower pan section is a fix, but that is just a small percentage of where it's used. On our development engine you can see it oozing out of places on the inside and outside.

[KillerBMotorsport]

We've got a couple units available if anyone wants a Beta unit to try out. All it costs you is installing time. Shoot us a PM if you're interested in being a tester

[mike2100]

What would beta testing consist of? Are you looking for cars that see track time? Thanks

[brokenblinker]

Well, its over a month later. Any track data yet @KillerBMotorsport? I can hardly contain my excitement for this.

[gnarjunkie]

Bumpity bump @KillerBMotorsport

[Frost]

Bumping this up for a new solution @KillerBMotorsport

[900BRZ]

Hi, just wanted to share some preliminary testing I’ve been doing to set a baseline before installing the prototype baffle. I made a video documenting the testing setup and the results:

The summary is: I can consistently reproduce oil pressure drops on right-hand corners, many of which are significant enough to cause concern for bearing damage.

This is with low-grip GT Radial SX2 tires and minimal modifications. I’m running OEM coilovers, OEM ride height, and just have minor alignment changes on the front end from offset strut mounts and camber bolts. Rear end is entirely OEM. I’m also running a Jackson Racing oil cooler and Motul 8100 EFE 5W30 motor oil.

The prototype baffle is going on my car today and I’ll be at Thunderhill 5-Mile on July 1 to test the baffle.

[vindiesel]

This video needs stickied…I know a baffle would be cheaper then this. A remade oil pan and the deeper part centered with oil pick up tube? Or a deeper high capacity oil pan to insure no drop? Even if oil is getting trapped in other parts of the engine extra capacity would negate the pressure drop would it not? Or hell a pick up tube that has a bend center of the current oem oil pan?

[raisingAnarchy]

Originally Posted by 900BRZ

Hi, just wanted to share some preliminary testing I’ve been doing to set a baseline before installing the prototype baffle. I made a video documenting the testing setup and the results:

The summary is: I can consistently reproduce oil pressure drops on right-hand corners, many of which are significant enough to cause concern for bearing damage.

This is with low-grip GT Radial SX2 tires and minimal modifications. I’m running OEM coilovers, OEM ride height, and just have minor alignment changes on the front end from offset strut mounts and camber bolts. Rear end is entirely OEM. I’m also running a Jackson Racing oil cooler and Motul 8100 EFE 5W30 motor oil.

The prototype baffle is going on my car today and I’ll be at Thunderhill 5-Mile on July 1 to test the baffle.

This is a fantastic video, thank you for taking the time to put it together. Honestly, it's giving me pause on taking delivery of the GR86 I've been waiting for in a few weeks.


I was surprised to see such massive pressure drops even at less intense corners, like in your video around the 10:10 mark. It's showing around 0.9g through the right hander, yet that's still enough to lose 50% of oil pressure.

[900BRZ]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

This video needs stickied…I know a baffle would be cheaper then this. A remade oil pan and the deeper part centered with oil pick up tube? Or a deeper high capacity oil pan to insure no drop? Even if oil is getting trapped in other parts of the engine extra capacity would negate the pressure drop would it not? Or hell a pick up tube that has a bend center of the current oem oil pan?

Thank you! Yeah I think those are interesting ideas. May need a new header to install a deeper pan, but that is a possible route to go down. Similar idea to a slight overfill. Doesn’t solve the surging/sloshing, but may reduce the impact.

I have read about some modifications to pickups to remove bends (I believe this was in a forced induction FA20). They argued that the bend was causing cavitation and, thus, starvation. So in general I’m hesitant about bends unless they have significant testing, which seems lacking even in the factory FA24.

In theory this pressure drop could be a result of cavitation in the irregularly shaped FA24 pickup rather than lack of oil, but it’s hard to say without more research. At this point, I’m hoping that the prototype baffle works and I keep can tracking this car for years to come.