Big Problem

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Possible fix http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24246

It looks like our cars might be sensitive to changes in resistance for starting. Maybe you are grounding out somewhere. Can you place a battery in the stock location?

Also do you have a rear fog lamp?

Also try this. Lock your doors open manually with the key inside your fob... Then hold the fob near your start button and try starting the car .

[jpit]

This is what the diagnostics program shows. If anybody can see a problem, please let me know. Thanks.

[stugray]

I wish I knew what the "parameter -4, -3, -3, -3, 0, 1" columns meant.
I can only assume that it is a sample number spaced by 1 second (1 Hz data).

If so I assume that someone depress the throttle between samples near the end (between samples 0 & 1)?
And it looks like someone tried to crank it between samples -2 & -1 because the starter relay and starter cut relays changed state.
However the battery current never jumped up and your clutch switch never changed state.

Did the driver depress the clutch when cranking or not? (you never said that this was an AT).
I would need to know more about what was being done when the diag data was taken.

[zc06_kisstherain]

first sorry for what happened. i am gonnna purchase ESC soon and would like to see update.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by jpit

This is what the diagnostics program shows. If anybody can see a problem, please let me know. Thanks.

Anything new?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by jpit

This is what the diagnostics program shows. If anybody can see a problem, please let me know. Thanks.

Battery Volts = 5V that looks suspect

Error code P1064

DTC Code DTC Name P1604 Startability Malfunction DESCRIPTION
This DTC is stored if the engine does not start or continues to crank without starting for a certain period of time. This DTC is also stored if the vehicle has run out of fuel. It is necessary to check whether there was enough fuel in the fuel tank before performing this inspection.
DTC No. Detection Item DTC Detection Condition Trouble Area MIL Memory P1604 Startability Malfunction While cranking, the engine cannot be started even cranking for 30 seconds or engine does not idle (engine stalls) for more than 2 seconds after cranking
(1 trip detection logic)

• Battery
  
  
• Starting system
  
  
• Low quality fuel
  
  
• Injector compensation code
  
  
• Fuel filter
  
  
• Cylinder compression pressure
  
  
• Injector assembly
  
  
• Engine coolant temperature sensor
  
  
• Glow system
  
  
• Supply pump assembly
  
  
• Common rail assembly
  
  
• ECM
  
  
• Stop and start system
  

- DTC stored
Table 1. DTC Detection Drive Pattern DTC No. DTC Detection Drive Pattern P1604 During engine start (cranking)
Table 2. Related Data List DTC No. Data List P1604

• MAP
  
  
• MAF
  
  
• Intake Air
  
  
• Coolant Temp
  
  
• Battery Voltage
  
  
• Starter Signal
  
  
• Engine Speed of Cyl #1 (to #4)
  
  
• Immobiliser Communication
  
  
• Target Common Rail Pressure
  
  
• Fuel Press
  
  
• Target Pump SCV Current
  
  
• Injection Feedback Val #1 (to #4)
  
  
• Injection Volume
  
  
• Actual Throttle Position
  
  
• Throttle Motor Duty
  
  
• Target EGR Pos.
  
  
• Actual EGR Valve Pos.
  
  
• EGR Close Lrn. Status
  
  
• EGR Close Lrn. Val.
  
  
• Pre Glow
  
  
• After Glow
  

CAUTION / NOTICE / HINT
Tip:

• In contrast to normal malfunction diagnosis for components, circuits and systems, DTC P1604 is used to determine the malfunctioning area from the problem symptoms and freeze frame data when the user mentions problems such as starting difficulty.
  As the DTC can be stored as a result of certain user actions, even if the DTC is output, if the customer makes no mention of problems, clear the DTC without performing any troubleshooting and return the vehicle to the customer.
  
  
• DTCs related to engine stall and starting problems may be detected due to operations performed by the user. The following are a few examples. Ask questions to the user about how the vehicle is operated and give advice as necessary.
  
  
  • The user stops cranking before the engine has completely started.
    
    
  • Power to the starter is cut off due to not depressing the brake pedal enough or releasing the brake pedal too soon when the cranking holding function is operating.
    
    
  • The user restarted the engine while the engine was stopped by the stop control of the stop and start system.
    
• When confirming the freeze frame data, be sure to check all 5 data sets of freeze frame data.
  
  
• The fourth set of freeze frame data is the data recorded when the DTC is stored.
  

Table 3. *1 DTC stored *2 0.5 seconds *3 Freeze frame data which can be read

1. In order to start the engine, the starting system, glow system, fuel system and the components related to compression must be functioning properly.
2. The cause of the problem can be narrowed down by checking if the engine cranks normally.
3. Starting system (when cranking is abnormal)
   
   1. The engine cannot be started if a sufficient cranking speed cannot be obtained. The following are possible causes of an insufficient cranking speed.
      
      1. Problem with the starting system (Engine does not crank).
         
         
      2. Problem with the engine immobiliser system (Engine does not crank) (w/ entry and start system).
         
         
      3. Problem with the battery (Cranking speed is low).
         
         
      4. Problem with the starter assembly (Cranking speed is low).
         
4. Glow system (when cranking is normal)
   
   1. When there is a problem with the glow system, the intake air temperature does not rise adequately and the fuel combustion temperature is not reached. Therefore, there is no initial combustion or it takes time for the engine to start. The following are possible causes.
      
      1. Engine coolant temperature sensor malfunction.
         
         
      2. Glow plug malfunction.
         Tip: If a glow plug has deteriorated, the engine may be less likely to start when the outside temperature is lower than 0°C (32°F).
         
         
         
      3. Glow plug relay malfunction.
         
5. Fuel system (when cranking is normal)
   
   1. The engine cannot be started if fuel is not supplied. A minimum fuel pressure of 25000 kPa or higher must be supplied to start the engine. The following are possible causes of insufficient fuel pressure.
      
      1. Fuel line clogged.
         
         
      2. Lack of fuel.
         
         
      3. Fuel frozen.
         
         
      4. Low quality fuel.
         
         
      5. Air in fuel line.
         
         
      6. Fuel filter clogged.
         
         
      7. Problem with supply pump assembly.
         
         
      8. Problem with common rail assembly.
         
         
      9. Problem with injector assemblies.
         
   
   Tip: If the startability of the engine does not recover after air enters the fuel system due to a lack of fuel, etc., there may be a malfunction in the check valve between the fuel return pipe from the injector assembly.
   
6. Engine assembly
   
   1. There may be a problem with the engine unit itself if there is no problem with cranking, the glow system or fuel system.
      
      1. Engine friction too high.
         
         
      2. Insufficient compression.
         

PROCEDURE

1. READ OUTPUT ALL DTC (RECORD STORED DTC AND FREEZE FRAME DATA (PROCEDURE 1))
   
   1. Connect the GTS to the DLC3.
      
      
   2. Turn the ignition switch to ON and turn the GTS on.
      
      
   3. Enter the following menus: Powertrain / Engine and ECT / Trouble Codes.
      
      
   4. Record the stored DTCs and freeze frame data.
      Powertrain > Engine and ECT > Trouble CodesTip:This freeze frame data shows the actual engine conditions when engine starting trouble occurred.
      
      ResultProceed toNEXT
      
      
   NEXT
2. CHECK ANY OTHER DTCS OUTPUT (IN ADDITION TO DTC P1604)
   
   1. Connect the GTS to the DLC3.
      
      
   2. Turn the ignition switch to ON and turn the GTS on.
      
      
   3. Enter the following menus: Powertrain / Engine and ECT / Trouble Codes.
      
      
   4. Read the DTCs.
      Powertrain > Engine and ECT > Trouble CodesResultResultProceed toDTC P1604 is outputADTC P1604 and other DTCs are outputB
      
      Tip:If any DTCs other than DTC P1604 are output, troubleshoot those DTCs first.
      
      
   B GO TO DTC CHART Click hereНажмите здесь
   
   A
3. TAKE SNAPSHOT DURING STARTING AND IDLING (PROCEDURE 3)
   
   1. Connect the GTS to the DLC3.
      
      
   2. Turn the ignition switch to ON and turn the GTS on.
      
      
   3. Enter the following menus: Powertrain / Engine and ECT / Data List / All Data.
      
      
   4. Take a snapshot of the following Data List items using the GTS during "ignition switch ON (5 seconds) → Starting → Idling (10 seconds)".
      Result Proceed to NEXT
      
      
   NEXT
4. DETERMINE CAUSE OF PROBLEM (CHECK FREEZE FRAME DATA AND SNAPSHOT)
   
   1. Determine the cause of the problem based on the freeze frame data recorded in Procedure 1 and the Data List values recorded when starting the engine in Procedure 3.
      Table 4. Coolant Temp Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Coolant Temp" in freeze frame data is less than 35°C (95°F) Engine starting trouble which occurred with a cold engine -
      • The engine coolant temperature is 60 to 90°C (140 to 194°F) after warming up the engine.
        
        
      • Normally, "Coolant Temp" is the same as the outside air temperature after an overnight engine soak.
        
        
      • Engine starting trouble with a cold engine occurs when the engine coolant temperature sensor is malfunctioning.
        
      "Coolant Temp" in Data List is less than 35°C (95°F)Currently, no engine starting trouble (cranking time less than 4 seconds) after warming up engine ("Coolant Temp" is 60°C (140°F) or higher) Engine starting trouble which only occurs with a cold engine
      Table 5. Engine Speed Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Engine Speed" in freeze frame data is less than 50 rpm Engine starting trouble may have occurred because engine speed was too low
      • During cranking: 90 to 400 rpm
        
        
      • Idling with warm engine: 720 to 820 rpm
        
      • The battery may be fully depleted or the battery terminals may be loose.
        
        
      • The viscosity of the engine oil may be inappropriate (low viscosity oil is not used).
        
      "Engine Speed" in Data List is less than 50 rpm when cranking engine "Engine Speed" in Data List is 0 rpm
      Tip: "Engine Speed" in the Data List may be 0 rpm in accordance with the driver's operation. Check this Data List item only when DTC P1603 is output.
      
      Engine cranking trouble may have occurred because there is a malfunction in the starter assembly or stop and start system. If DTC P1603 is output, refer to Inspection Procedure of the stop and start system.
      Нажмите здесь
      
      Table 6. Battery Voltage Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Battery Voltage" in freeze frame data is below 7 V Engine starting trouble may have occurred because battery is fully depleted During cranking: 7 V or higher The battery may be fully depleted or the battery terminals may be loose. "Battery Voltage" in Data List is below 7 V when cranking engine
      Table 7. Fuel Press Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Fuel Press" in freeze frame data is below 1000 kPa Problem supplying fuel to supply pump assembly (low pressure side)
      
      • Ran out of fuel, air in fuel, fuel frozen (in this case, values of "Fuel Temperature" and "Coolant Temp" in freeze frame data are low)
        
        
      • Fuel filter clogged, fuel line clogged (low pressure side) or fuel leak
        
        
      • Feed pump (in supply pump assembly) malfunctioning
        
      When in a stable condition such as when idling, the fuel pressure is within +/-10000 kPa of the target fuel pressure Disconnect the inlet hose from the supply pump assembly (low pressure side), operate the hand pump and check that fuel is being supplied. "Fuel Press" in Data List is below 1000 kPa 2 seconds after engine cranking is started "Fuel Press" in freeze frame data is below 20000 kPa Problem supplying fuel to supply pump assembly (low pressure side) or problem on high pressure side
      
      • Supply pump assembly (suction control valve operation malfunction)
        
        
      • Common rail assembly
        
        
      • Injector assembly (if glow plug is covered with fuel when removed, injector of corresponding cylinder may be stuck open)
        
        
      • Fuel line clog (high pressure side), fuel leak
        
      When in stable condition such as when idling, fuel pressure is within +/-10000 kPa of target fuel pressure
      • For startup at least 20000 kPa of fuel pressure is needed (Take care there is a response lag when the pressure rises)
        
        
      • If "Fuel Press" is 15000 kPa or less, fuel injection control is stopped.
        
      After cranking is started, "Fuel Press" in Data List increases to 20000 kPa or higher and then decreases to below 15000 kPa "Fuel Press" in freeze frame data or Data List changes within range of 40000 to 45000 kPa
      • Injector assembly (fuel injection problem caused by air in injector)
        
        
      • Problem with injection system
        
      When in a stable condition such as when idling, the fuel pressure is within +/-10000 kPa of the target fuel pressure
      • If there is air in the injectors of all cylinders, fuel cannot be injected.
        
        
      • If there is an injection system problem related to 2 or more cylinders, fuel delivery and injection control are stopped.
        
        
      • When the EDU circuit (built into ECM) has a malfunction, the ECM cannot perform diagnosis of malfunctions and DTCs are not stored as voltage is unstable during cranking. Also, an excess amount of fuel is supplied by the supply pump assembly and "Fuel Press" becomes larger than "Target Common Rail Pressure" as fuel injection cannot be performed even though a fuel injection signal is output due to a failure to detect malfunctions at engine start.
        
      
      Table 8. Target Pump SCV Current Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Target Pump SCV Current" in freeze frame data is more than 1530 mA.
      • Supply pump assembly (SCV operation malfunction)
        
        
      • Fuel line clog
        
        
      • Air in fuel line
        
      Normally, value is 1530 mA or less An excessively large number is displayed due to a problem with fuel feed. "Target Pump SCV Current" in Data List is more than 1530 mA.
      Table 9. Injection Feedback Val #1 (to #4) Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Injection Feedback Val #1 (to #4)" in freeze frame data is not between -2.0 and 2.0 mm3/st
      Injector assembly malfunction or compression problem -2.0 to 2.0 mm3/st
      If a injector assembly is malfunctioning, even though the engine starts, idling is rough. "Injection Feedback Val #1 (to #4)" in Data List is not between -2.0 and 2.0 mm3/st when idling
      Table 10. Injection Volume Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Injection Volume" in Data List is 8 mm3/st or less and "Injection Feedback Val #1 (to #4)" is within range of +/-2 mm3/st when idling after warming up engine
      Injectors of all cylinders malfunctioning - -
      Table 11. Main Injection Period Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Main Injection Period" in freeze frame data or Data List is 0 μs
      • Supply pump assembly (when suction control valve has open or short circuit, fuel supply from pump stops)
        
        
      • Problem with injection system (injector circuit is open (2 cylinders or more) or EDU (built into ECM) is malfunctioning)
        
        
      • Problem with engine immobiliser system
        
        
      • Engine speed 60 rpm or less
        
        
      • ECM malfunction
        
      - Indicates that fuel injection control has stopped.
      Table 12. Immobiliser Communication Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Immobiliser Communication" in freeze frame data or Data List is OFF Engine immobiliser system ON Fuel injection has stopped due to engine immobiliser system.
      Table 13. Immobiliser Fuel Cut History Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Immobiliser Fuel Cut History" in freeze frame data is OFF to ON Fuel injection has stopped due to engine immobiliser system.
      Tip: "Main Injection Period" in freeze frame data is 0 μs
      
      OFF
      • Inspect engine immobiliser system.
        
        
      • Inspection looseness in battery terminal.
        
        
      • Inspect connection condition of ECM power supply system wiring.
        
      
      Table 14. Engine Speed (Starter Off) Judgment of Data List Values Problem Cause Normal Condition Diagnosis Note "Engine Speed (Starter Off)" in freeze frame data is low (approximately below 500 rpm)
      Tip: Indicates the engine speed when the starter signal turns off.
      
      Engine stalled or starting troubles occurred due to cranking being stopped before the engine has completely started. - Compare it with the Data List when cranking normally and if the value is evidently low (approximately below 500 rpm), the problem probably occurred due to user operation, so give advice about how to operate the vehicle.
      Result Proceed to NEXT
      
   NEXT GO TO ENGINE DIFFICULT TO START OR STALLING Click hereНажмите здесь

[SirBrass]

What are you quoting from, Steve?

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

What are you quoting from, Steve?

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

Generic toyota stuff from internet, don't have BRZ service manual with me

[steve99]

@jpit
Suggest you download BRZ service manual from here

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/60477179/BRZ.iso

burn iso image to CD and your away

[jpit]

What's the easiest way to check if the fuel pump is functioning?

[Target70]

I think we have an electric fuel pressure sensor, that should tell you if it is running/clogged etc.. on analog cars I would rent a fuel pressure test kit from the auto parts store. Maybe our fuel line connections are not compatible with a generic kit.

[jpit]

From the data I posted above I think it shows that the fuel pump is working?

[Target70]

it looks like it is, I think the pressure sensor is after the filter (which I think is in the tank). you can still get pressure at first and not flow to sustain it if the filter is clogged. If you turn the car to on, and wait a few moments before trying to start, and it does, but then dies quickly after that I would think it was an obstruction not allowing flow, but I am not sure if that data-log you have can keep track of the pressure in real time or if it just takes snapshots. Sorry I can't really be of more help, this is the first car I have had without a distributor.

[Sojhinn]

Any news?