Early locking transmission vs. Automated manual.

[ahausheer]

Can anyone provide insight into the tactile differences between an early locking torque converter and an automated manual. Is the Toyobaru auto going to essentially be a auto-manual with a single clutch?

[madfast]

When the TC locks up, the engine and transmission is directly, mechanically connected. so it should feel like an auto-manual, but obviously they both work in different ways.

[ryude]

Both automatics use a clutch, the only difference is one uses 2 clutches and one uses a clutch with a torque converter. Once the torque converter is locked, it's basically a manual transmission.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ryude

Both automatics use a clutch, the only difference is one uses 2 clutches and one uses a clutch with a torque converter. Once the torque converter is locked, it's basically a manual transmission.

technically incorrect.

Auto-manuals use the conventional manual transmission gearset with an electro-hydraulically controlled clutch. dual clutches obviously use 2 gearsets and 2 clutches.

torque converter automatics use a torque converter, lock up clutch, and planetary gearsets. each planetary gearset has its own clutches/brakes to make up the different ratios

the in between transmission is AMG's MCT which uses planetary gearsets but replaces the TC and lockup clutch with a wet multiplate clutch

[ahausheer]

I don't care too much how they work but I appreciate your knowledge. My main question is how long will the clutch remain locked (within each gears range, I know it must unlock to change gears). Is it locked during cruising and hard acceleration or will it de-couple as soon as you accelerate hard.

[serialk11r]

What manufacturers are shifting towards is a lockup clutch that is more or less always engaged past 1st gear. See Mazda Skyactiv transmission, or Lexus ISF.

[ft86Fan]

Originally Posted by madfast

technically incorrect.

Auto-manuals use the conventional manual transmission gearset with an electro-hydraulically controlled clutch. dual clutches obviously use 2 gearsets and 2 clutches.

torque converter automatics use a torque converter, lock up clutch, and planetary gearsets. each planetary gearset has its own clutches/brakes to make up the different ratios

the in between transmission is AMG's MCT which uses planetary gearsets but replaces the TC and lockup clutch with a wet multiplate clutch

This is correct.

[CXTKRS1]

So if you throw both the FRS auto and manual on a dyno the RWHP numbers will be pretty the same?

[Snaps]

Who cares? This car isn't about dyno numbers...





But to answer your question, yes, pretty much.

[ahausheer]

So what is the advantage of a manual over the locking auto? Stronger left foot?

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

So what is the advantage of a manual over the locking auto? Stronger left foot?

More fun. that's just about it.

and notice i said more fun. plenty of people can enjoy themselves in a well sorted AT. i'll never say an AT is more fun than a MT, but a good AT is fun enough, and that's good enough for me.

[arghx7]

A transmission with a torque converter is going to feel a little bit different coming off a traffic light compared to a single or dual clutch automated manual.

[Snaps]

But when it matters - when you're actually moving - it should feel very similar, as long as the TC locks up after first (as I would guess this gearbox does).

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by arghx7

A transmission with a torque converter is going to feel a little bit different coming off a traffic light compared to a single or dual clutch automated manual.

for the better I think? I heard that automatic using clutches only aren't very smooth from stop.