E85 Tune & Precautions

[Xuningshen]

I would go with ECUtek over OFT if this is that much of an issue for you. Or you could just get your stuff together and never go somewhere that doesn't have e85 with an e85 tune. I know OFT is cheaper, but ecutek it has more features.

for a non-flex fuel setup
I ran a delicious tune that was as such

map 1: 91 octane
map 2: near empty e85 tank filled with 91 octane. (e30 ish)
map 3: near empty 91 tank filled up with e85 (e60ish)
map 4: e85

still, most shops wont recommend running e85 without a flex-fuel sensor, and I can see why after I ran my car on e85 without it.

if you're paranoid(i'm half paranoid), you'd be constantly wondering what actual content of ethanol you got from the pump, and constantly checking your fuel trims via Torque app to make sure you didn't get some way off mixture of ethanol.

Also you'll be constantly checking the ethanol content of gas whenever you fill up, even though you're keeping an eye on fuel trims. (I would carry a can with me and pump a gallon or so into it and measure from that once i got home).

We're both in socal, and I can tell you this one "e85" station in orange county actually pumps out e90 (I was wondering why my fuel trims were so high.)

since then i've gotten off e85, and am running the JRSC w/ carb tune. if/when I plan on going back to e85, i'll be doing it w/ a flex-fuel kit because its just too much of a hassle after the first 4-6 months.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

I think my biggest fear would be as described above being flashed to an E85 tune, wanting to switch over to 91/93 for whatever reason & the hardware fails to do so. Are there any good options in this scenario lol.

Just take the plunge, nothing to really fear. I've (unintentionally) driven my car on E85 tune for ~50 miles (an hour) with 93 octane in the tank before realizing I was on the wrong tune.. it was just force of habit, I'm so used to switching to E85 tune as soon as I get in my car.

I've also driven for 30 minutes on my 93 octane tune with E85 in the tank before realizing I'm on the wrong tune. And, I've driven on everything from E55-E80 on my E85 tune, and from E07-E25 on my 93 tune. 40K+ miles later, my car hasn't exploded yet.

It's been talked about alot already in these forums, the ECU does a great job at adjusting the timing to prevent engine damage if you fill up with the "wrong" type of fuel.

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by reeves

Just take the plunge, nothing to really fear. I've (unintentionally) driven my car on E85 tune for ~50 miles (an hour) with 93 octane in the tank before realizing I was on the wrong tune.. it was just force of habit, I'm so used to switching to E85 tune as soon as I get in my car.

I've also driven for 30 minutes on my 93 octane tune with E85 in the tank before realizing I'm on the wrong tune. And, I've driven on everything from E55-E80 on my E85 tune, and from E07-E25 on my 93 tune. 40K+ miles later, my car hasn't exploded yet.

It's been talked about alot already in these forums, the ECU does a great job at adjusting the timing to prevent engine damage if you fill up with the "wrong" type of fuel.

The knock control system in this car's ECU was not designed as an ethanol sensing adjustment system. That's what a proper flex-fuel setup and tune is for.

The knock control system is there to try to save the engine from destruction caused by detonation. In order for the knock control system to adjust timing, if must first detect detonation. That means your engine is seeing potentially damaging detonation before making adjustments to timing.

While running the wrong fuel/wrong tune may not blow the engine immediately, it is doing damage to the engine in slow increments. Detonation can kill pistons, ringlands, rings, rods, rod bearings, etc. slowly over time. Also, running extremely rich can cause issues such as washing the cylinder walls down with fuel, removing the lubricating oil, and diluting the oil with fuel, which reduces the lubricating properties of your oil, affecting all areas of the engine needing lubrication.

Over time, these issues often result in premature engine failures, as the damage is done in small increments over time.

Something to think about when relying on the knock control system or fuel trims to adjust for the wrong fuel/wrong tune. Also, there are limits to how far the ECU can adjust timing and fuel.

- Bob

[Akari]

Worst case scenario you go to the store, grab a bunch of Everclear(E95), drink said Everclear then call up OpenFlash and have them overnight you a new unit.

But seriously the chance of a scenario playing out that leaves you in this position is so low. You're more likely to have other car troubles that leave you stranded as opposed to this happening.

[tracerit]

Originally Posted by Xuningshen

We're both in socal, and I can tell you this one "e85" station in orange county actually pumps out e90 (I was wondering why my fuel trims were so high.)

since then i've gotten off e85, and am running the JRSC w/ carb tune. if/when I plan on going back to e85, i'll be doing it w/ a flex-fuel kit because its just too much of a hassle after the first 4-6 months.

Which station is this? I'm in Huntington Beach and there are two Propel stations nearby. I hope it's not one or both or those!

[diodelphi]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

Hello. You have a couple of great options.

1) Get an EcuTek E85/Gas tune where the Gas tune and the E85 tune are included in one tune. This enables you to switch to an E85 tune and back to a gasoline (91/93) tune using your cruise control stalk. Takes about 2 seconds to switch tunes, No laptop, no tablet, no flashing required. The only thing you are relying on here is the ECU in the car. Currently, EcuTek is the only solution I am aware of that includes on-the-fly map switching.

With EcuTek, you can have up to 4 switchable maps. You could even have a dedicated 91 octane map, a dedicated 93 octane map, and a dedicated E85 map, and can switch freely between them all using the cruise control stalk. If you don't have cruise control, there are other options to switch maps as well.

2) Install a flex-fuel kit, get an EcuTek flex-fuel tune. With an EcuTek flex-fuel tune, one tune will handle any mix of E85 and Gas, any amount of ethanol in the system, from e0 to e100. It's a true flex-fuel setup that dynamically optimizes for optimum engine operation and best performance based on ethanol content without worrying about the mix of gas and E85 in the tank. No reflashing or changing maps required for different gas/e85 mixes. Again, EcuTek is the only solution available that I am aware of that can delivery a true flex-fuel solution. These EcuTek solutions have been available for the BRZ/FRS for nearly two years.

- Bob

one ecutek tuner told me for map switching we can not switch between 91/93 pump gas and E85 and we just can switch between E70 to E100.

it seems ecutek do not allow switching between so different maps.

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by diodelphi

one ecutek tuner told me for map switching we can not switch between 91/93 pump gas and E85 and we just can switch between E70 to E100.

it seems ecutek do not allow switching between so different maps.

I'm not sure where you are getting the incorrect information from, but you have posted misinformation about EcuTek on several occasions on this forum. Please stop. Please do a little more research before making such posts.

Read this post by @Xuningshen, just a few posts above in this thread. This was an EcuTek tune he is describing: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=15


With all due respect, the tuner that told you this either does not know how to make such a tune, does not understand the EcuTek tuning solution, or is choosing to only offer an E70/E100 tune to you. I don't know why you were told this, but it is completely incorrect.

I assure you that I, and any EcuTek tuner on here can deliver what I described above. I have personally tuned many BRZ/FRS/GT86 cars with 4 switchable maps for different fuel octanes/ethanol mixes, all within one tune. With EcuTek, one could tune for any ethanol mix, from E0 to E100. There are no such limitations as you imply above.

The EcuTek tuning system is a complete, fully functional tuning platform with the freedom to create any type of tune the tuner wishes. And the EcuTek solution for the 86 platform supports up to 4 separate maps within one tune, which the tuner may implement as he/she desires.

I would suggest finding another EcuTek tuner for your tune if you are wanting more than just an E70/E100 map-switchable tune.

- Bob

[diodelphi]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

I'm not sure where you are getting the incorrect information from, but you have posted misinformation about EcuTek on several occasions on this forum. Please stop. Please do a little more research before making such posts.


The EcuTek tuning system is a complete, fully functional tuning platform with the freedom to create any type of tune the tuner wishes. And the EcuTek solution for the 86 platform supports up to 4 separate maps within one tune, which the tuner may implement as he/she desires.

- Bob

1. i did not sure about 4 different maps and i just told "one tuner" told me. I guess the tuner did not liked to pay more time for me?!!!
2. i think about flex fuel you are right , i do not exactly know what happen in ecutek when i told we could do E85 with 2 way.1.flex fuel 2.from scratch
please be honest and help me to clarify my misunderstood without attacking me.

3. ecutek is good but it's hard to believe it has full access to all of ecu functions.