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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 04-04-2015, 03:16 PM   #281
himbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEric6 View Post
We had our suspicions that the OEM intake manifold doesn't distribute air evenly to each cylinder. Believing that the OEM ECU does not correct for this (which still seems like a viable assumption), we plan to pick up some power by balancing the cylinder distribution some while improving the overall efficiency through reduced flow losses. That was the goal at least.

I have no doubt that you can pick up significant power by optimizing cylinders. There is a great video on youtube detailing how NASCAR does this and they pick up multiple percentages of power. I just didn't think OEMs were to that point yet.
Has this info changed the development or schedule of this manifold?
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:20 PM   #282
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Has this info changed the development or schedule of this manifold?
No, nothing has changed.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:13 PM   #283
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So long, I've been looking too hard, I've been waiting too long
Sometimes I don't know what I will find, I only know it's a matter of, time

When you need an intake, when you need an intake
It feels so right, so much power, I need to know if you need it too
Maybe I'm wrong, won't you tell me if I'm accelerating too strong
This wallet of mine has been hurt before, this time I want to be sure

I've been waiting for a manifold like you to come into my life
I've been waiting for a intake like you, your engine will survive
I've been waiting for a new intake to make me feel alive
Yeah, waiting for a manifold like you to come into my life

You're so good, when we make power it's understood
It's more than a tune or KoolBRZ can say
Only Velox could make it this way

When you love your car, yeah, really love love your car
I know it's right, from the moment I floor it deep in the night
There's nowhere on earth that I'd rather be than thrashing you mercilessly

With apologies to Foreigner
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOf915su9q8"]foreigner waiting for a girl like you - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:08 AM   #284
Tim Radley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEric6 View Post
We had our suspicions that the OEM intake manifold doesn't distribute air evenly to each cylinder. Believing that the OEM ECU does not correct for this (which still seems like a viable assumption), we plan to pick up some power by balancing the cylinder distribution some while improving the overall efficiency through reduced flow losses. That was the goal at least.

I have no doubt that you can pick up significant power by optimizing cylinders. There is a great video on youtube detailing how NASCAR does this and they pick up multiple percentages of power. I just didn't think OEMs were to that point yet.
The turn behind the throttle body alone is a nasty sharp edge. It's just built down to a price that's all.
If you've managed to get the air distribution much improved on this then you will get a load more timing into it when boosted.
The intake shown below took another 7 degrees compared to a ported stock one.
When do you expect to get this tested and ready for launch?
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:35 PM   #285
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@DeliciousTuning @moto-mike @EcuTek

Anybody know if these cylinder offset correction factors are adjustable with ECUTEK?
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:28 PM   #286
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@DeliciousTuning @moto-mike @EcuTek

Anybody know if these cylinder offset correction factors are adjustable with ECUTEK?
What offset do you mean? I know that fuel and timing trims are available. They just aren't available to end users (at the moment).
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:54 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
So long, I've been looking too hard, I've been waiting too long
Sometimes I don't know what I will find, I only know it's a matter of, time

When you need an intake, when you need an intake
It feels so right, so much power, I need to know if you need it too
Maybe I'm wrong, won't you tell me if I'm accelerating too strong
This wallet of mine has been hurt before, this time I want to be sure

I've been waiting for a manifold like you to come into my life
I've been waiting for a intake like you, your engine will survive
I've been waiting for a new intake to make me feel alive
Yeah, waiting for a manifold like you to come into my life

You're so good, when we make power it's understood
It's more than a tune or KoolBRZ can say
Only Velox could make it this way

When you love your car, yeah, really love love your car
I know it's right, from the moment I floor it deep in the night
There's nowhere on earth that I'd rather be than thrashing you mercilessly

With apologies to Foreigner
I needed to hear that. thanks
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:37 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Radley View Post
Stock manifold doesn't run equal air distribution and the stock ecu mapping is offset on each cylinder to compensate for this. So technically each cylinder will now need mapping individually to make this run right. Cool looking product
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Radley View Post
I'm not aware of any threads talking about it but most oem ecu's on a performance car i've ever measured in this way runs different cylinder maps or at least offset tables for each cylinder for both ignition and fuel. This is why aftermarket ecu's with a single table for fuel and also for ignition often run pretty badly at idle and transient compared to oem.

I'm running a Motec ecu on my GT86 with 4 lambda's (one per header) and its very clear just how bad the intake and exhaust paths are and the amount of difference required. Its not a constant offset either, amounts cross over. If you measure each intake runner and exhaust runner length they all have a different total overall tuned length so it's not surprising at all.

When will pricing and completion date be confirmed on this?
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Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
What offset do you mean? I know that fuel and timing trims are available. They just aren't available to end users (at the moment).
this
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:23 PM   #289
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@Calum you can adjust fueling and timing trim on a per cylinder basis. But to really do anything with that you'll need a 4 channel EGT or AFR for fuel, and some knock equipment for the timing.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:51 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by moto-mike View Post
@Calum you can adjust fueling and timing trim on a per cylinder basis. But to really do anything with that you'll need a 4 channel EGT or AFR for fuel, and some knock equipment for the timing.
If only the access to the per cylinder knock thresholds were logable or accessible like they are on the FA20DIT or on the Motec, that would allow a little part of the picture become more apparent. A lambda sensor in every exhaust port would be ideal but as Tim said it's a big investment. You just have to be aware that this is the case.

So on the stock manifold the front 2 cylinders will run richer than the rear based on the TB to runner angle? If so, is this something that increases as RPM increase?
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:03 PM   #291
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Oh Velox, I need air for my engine, so it can make more power.
The stock air runs are so kinky, the engine works hard to breathe.

Oh Velox, help me end this nightmare, so that I can track faster.
Please make more power for me and make my engine run stronger.


Go, the jig is up, the news is out, the parts look astounding.
When data is in, post the numbers up and don't bother rounding.
Need an intake that flows real smooth and let the engine breathe,
To go down the road.


Many, many apologies to Styx
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:31 PM   #292
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This thread just keeps getting better
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:42 AM   #293
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Now is not exactly the time,
To try and make a simple rhyme,
Let's all wait for the dyno numbers,
instead of becoming mere word fumblers
No speculations need be fanned,
stick to the facts that are at hand,
Velox is trying to raise the bar,
You ask why? Because racecar...
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Old 04-06-2015, 03:00 AM   #294
Tim Radley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
If only the access to the per cylinder knock thresholds were logable or accessible like they are on the FA20DIT or on the Motec, that would allow a little part of the picture become more apparent. A lambda sensor in every exhaust port would be ideal but as Tim said it's a big investment. You just have to be aware that this is the case.

So on the stock manifold the front 2 cylinders will run richer than the rear based on the TB to runner angle? If so, is this something that increases as RPM increase?
That is the beauty of having an ecu like the Motec. It allows all this stuff to be logged and experimented with. Knock for example, all 4 cylinders run differently. Even when fuelling is improved, the air path and firing order robbing other cylinders leads to some cylinders knocking before others.

In answer to your two questions. Its not the case they run richer, at some points they run leaner. The required fuel difference crosses over. In other words, at a certain rpm cylinder 3 requires more fuel than cylinder 1 and at another rpm it requires less. It's due to the tuned length and airflow issues.

My concern was that if the stock ecu has cylinder fuel offsets buried within it then not being able to adjust this with an aftermarket table will lead to a proper manifold then not working as good as it can do.

I'd be surprised if the stock ecu hasn't got individual mapping buried deep within as the stock ecu runs smoother than an aftermarket one without individual cylinder mapping. Be nice for an expert on the stock ecu to chime in that has actually dug around inside it and knows exactly what tables are in there. I could be wrong here.
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