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Old 11-07-2019, 08:57 AM   #85
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That's the problem, Tesla can't make a quality anything. Let's see what 10 year old Tesla's look like.

Oh wow, an ev can run a 64 second autocross. That really tells me anything about if they can survive even 1 lap of tail of the dragon, never mind all day at it. It says something when Tesla has to create an entirely new model to do what all manufacturers do for a large number of their vehicles.

Nissan Leafs are around $8-$10k right now with 40,000 miles. So I am exactly right on point with used car values. No one cares about used Tesla values, they are all too expensive and normal people absolutely cannot trust them.

I have no idea where you get this garbage from. A tesla model 3 starts at $40k, but just like Porsche they skyrocket in cost with options. And there is zero negotiation.

And you are lying again. Every summer all we hear about is rolling brownouts all throughout California because of a crappy electric grid. More importantly, No electric grid on the planet can support more than 20%, but probably less, of the people plugging in cars.

Normal people don't care what they drive every day. They care about not ever having issues with their vehicles, and being able to take road trips without having to plan for 3 hour stops every several hundred miles.

You simply prove why everyone hates ev lovers. How many more people does Tesla have to murder?
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:47 AM   #86
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^ Alex jones can probably answer that one
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:34 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
"Are you ignorant or just apathetic about EVs?"
"I don't know about EVs and I don't care! And I hate them!"

Idiocy.

I've had three EVs from three different brands. Two were returned after leases. I've driven four other EV models. Thinking of getting another. I've had multiple i4 engines, a flat 4 now, an i6, a v6, and a couple v8 engines. None of them are worth shit against a good EV drivetrain. EVs are not just the future, they're the superior product right now this second for most of the uses people have. If you say you love cars and you're not curious about EVs, you don't love cars one bit. If you have the cojones, go test drive a Tesla M3P. You'll shit yourself at how good the suspension, brakes, and acceleration are. And a P100D is on another level entirely.

If Tesla could make a quality interior, I'd have bought one long ago.

Top Gear has always been full of shit, but at least it was entertaining with Jezza. Now it's boring and full of shit. Shrug.
If that is supposed to be quoting me it isn't even close to what I said. You have completely bastardized my statement by changing the words around.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:48 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by why? View Post
That's the problem, Tesla can't make a quality anything. Let's see what 10 year old Tesla's look like.

Oh wow, an ev can run a 64 second autocross. That really tells me anything about if they can survive even 1 lap of tail of the dragon, never mind all day at it. It says something when Tesla has to create an entirely new model to do what all manufacturers do for a large number of their vehicles.

Nissan Leafs are around $8-$10k right now with 40,000 miles. So I am exactly right on point with used car values. No one cares about used Tesla values, they are all too expensive and normal people absolutely cannot trust them.

I have no idea where you get this garbage from. A tesla model 3 starts at $40k, but just like Porsche they skyrocket in cost with options. And there is zero negotiation.

And you are lying again. Every summer all we hear about is rolling brownouts all throughout California because of a crappy electric grid. More importantly, No electric grid on the planet can support more than 20%, but probably less, of the people plugging in cars.

Normal people don't care what they drive every day. They care about not ever having issues with their vehicles, and being able to take road trips without having to plan for 3 hour stops every several hundred miles.

You simply prove why everyone hates ev lovers. How many more people does Tesla have to murder?
The original roadsters are ten years old or about. They haven't disintegrated, as you seem to be suggesting. There are high use Telsa taxis/rentals that have over 400,000 miles on them:

https://insideevs.com/news/339110/hi...-420000-miles/

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...-going-strong/

You asked if it could be competitive in races. I don't know why endurance racing seems to matter most or be the sole metric you seem to need, and all I was saying is that the car is already competitive in many types of racing.

As I demonstrated before, the Tesla Model 3 is crushing it on sales, so I don't know why you are saying "normal people absolutely cannot trust them". You're being intellectually dishonest or willfully ignorant in spite of the evidence.

Here is a comparison between a BMW 3 series and a Model 3. As you can see, options on the BMW are much more extreme, and the editors note that the Model 3 comes standard with more equipment. Now, if we do my cost comparison of fuel and drivetrain maintenance over ten years, and consider the savings could be as high as $16k-20k, and we pull that savings off the original sticker price then the Model 3 (base) is about the same price as a 86 or cheaper after ten years.

https://www.motor1.com/reviews/37830...-3-comparison/

I have zero clue where you are getting your information. Do you have a link? I live in Santa Rosa, the city that lots thousand of homes to the fires in 2017. Over fifty people lost homes from the hospital I worked at. This year we saw our volume in the ER go from a daily average of 120 to 260 because Sutter, Kaiser and Healdsburg Hospitals shut down. I have lived both of these events, so I understand them intimately.

The problem is that we have seen drought years with 90+ degree days extending into October, which is causing extreme dryness. When high winds hit in the fall in excess of 80 miles per hour, there is a recipe for downed power lines leading to fires, so they are preemptively doing blackouts to reduce the risk. Our only solution is this or run power lines underground to the tune of $15,000 per customer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_C...power_shutoffs

Quote:
The power shutoffs are an attempt to prevent wildfires from being started by electrical equipment during strong and dry winds.
California doesn't have a "crappy electrical grid":

Quote:
California's energy consumption per capita are some of the lowest in the United States as a result of a long term policy of energy efficiency.

California has large energy resources, being among the top producers of oil, hydroelectricity, solar, biomass, and geothermal energy in the United States.

California's peak electricity demand occurred on July 24, 2006, at 2:44 pm, with 50,270 megawatts. Since then measures to reduce peak load have resulted in decreased peak demand, even as the state's population has continued to grow.

California leads the nation in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, and solar power. California has some of the most aggressive renewable energy goals in the United States.[18] The state is required to obtain at least 33% of its electricity from renewable resources by 2020, and 50% by 2030, excluding large hydro.[19][20] On May 13, 2017, the California Independent System Operator (ISO) reported that the state had broken a new instantaneous renewable energy record, with non-hydro renewables providing 67.2% of the total electricity on the ISO's grid, with another 13.5% being provided by hydro.
Solar power is getting cheaper and cheaper every year, and with the advent of solar tiles replacing traditional roofs when new homes are built or when someone needs to replace their roof, the percentage of homes producing renewable energy or directly refueling their cars will continue to rapidly rise. I see no evidence to suggest our grid can't support more electric cars now or in the future, especially because most people's cars could be recharging off peak hours; peak hours are 4pm-9pm, so at work or at night as they sleep.

I've posted links consistently to support my points. You keep making unsupported assertions with a sense of malice and hate directed at this subject matter. You clearly have a bias that is clouding your reasoning, and at this time, you seem to be intellectually dishonest or willfully ignorant in the face of the facts that I have presented.
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:27 PM   #89
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Tesla Solar updates, costs drop 40%, installation times drop to a day, solar rental option, etc...





This is a pretty technical for most viewers, but the point is to show that battery technology is rapidly improving, and I can see a point in the near future where someone could add hundreds of miles to a car in five minutes.

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Old 11-07-2019, 03:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
They can do autocross, time attack, etc. Like MotoGP/WSBK motorcycle racing or Formula E, EVs could race in a thirty minute circuit with no recharging. They can’t do everything unless a team is aloud to do battery pack changes or do car swaps.

You are using old data. Resale value is higher than average in many cases. The Plaid platform is built around a million mile life, so resale value is definitely going to be better than any ICE.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...e-upswing/amp/

Teslas are the cheapest luxury cars at this time. A Tesla Model 3 base model after ten years is cheaper than any other luxury sedan. It is cheaper than some non-luxury sedans. Gas here is at least $4/gal; if the average person drives 12-15k miles a year in a vehicle that gets 30m/gal mixed driving then they would spend $1,600-2,000 on gas per year, which is $16,000-20,000 after ten years. Add costs of drivetrain repairs, oil changes, etc, and depending on your recharge sources and costs, the car can be equal to other econoboxes.

California has (current) blackouts because of dry conditions mixed with high winds leading to powerline related fires. I would know. Look where I live. It isn’t a problem with electric infrastructure. California is on pace to be completely renewable for energy production too.

EVs are entirely practical for most people. The average person drives less than 30 miles a day, which is ten days of use for most people between recharges, which if someone uses a supercharger, it can be 20 minutes to add another 150 miles, and those times are rapidly improving.

Your arguments are entirely antiquated. You’re coming off as a Tesla hateboy more and more.
(I know most of your post isn't for me)

So now we're calling Teslas luxury cars again? Interesting, the build quality and interior design/quality would bet to differ.

CA has blackouts because of decades of horrible environmentalist driven forest management policies. CA has been a mostly dry region for tens of thousands of years. And has had the winds as long as those mountain ranges have been there. None of that's new. More and more people living in remote areas, requiring more power lines? That's new(er). CA isn't on pace to be completely renewable any time soon, not when they import more electricity than any other state. Also how are the highest energy rates in the country working out? A step in the right direction would be opening nuclear plants instead of closing them.

These are mere facts, not hateful attacks.
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:18 PM   #91
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-summoned.html
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Sold the FR-S, bought a better car.....


And that means the recall is someone else's problem.....
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
(I know most of your post isn't for me)

So now we're calling Teslas luxury cars again? Interesting, the build quality and interior design/quality would bet to differ.

CA has blackouts because of decades of horrible environmentalist driven forest management policies. CA has been a mostly dry region for tens of thousands of years. And has had the winds as long as those mountain ranges have been there. None of that's new. More and more people living in remote areas, requiring more power lines? That's new(er). CA isn't on pace to be completely renewable any time soon, not when they import more electricity than any other state. Also how are the highest energy rates in the country working out? A step in the right direction would be opening nuclear plants instead of closing them.

These are mere facts, not hateful attacks.
When did I say they were not luxury cars? Their performance, interior quality and features are inline with luxury cars. I have compared their long term costs to cars much cheaper.

45% of the land in California belongs to the US Government, and almost all of that is the wilderness. Actually, the climate is getting hotter here; the hot and dry season is getting longer. It is hard to quantify precipitation because a day of light rain and a day of heavy rain is the same if we look at days per year of rain, and if we look at total inches of precipitation per year that is misleading because it can rain a lot in a few days a year, and that would equate in inches to many days of light rain, but the benefits or effects are vastly different. With that said, the percipitation is down. Working with fire, I can tell you that the fire season is getting longer and is worse because of the environment--not where people live.

I'm confused by your statement. I highlighted a link that showed the grid supported 80.7% of the energy being delivered by renewables and hydro, and even if it wasn't sustained, the goal is to hit 50% by 2030; we are estimated to be at 34% right now. The goal is 45% by 2024 and 100% by 2045. Costs to develop these systems will pay off in the long run in reduced rates and jobs for Californians. I opt-in to a green program ($10-15) paying extra each month for my utilities. Just saying.

In a post-911 world, I think many have fears that nuclear reactors would be used as a terrorist target, which could kill millions and/or cost the state millions to billions of dollars. Also, in a state that is at a high risk of earthquakes, more reactors is not ideal, nor are they necessary.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fede...militia-2016-1

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...es-on-the-rise

https://www.outsideonline.com/192096...fornia-drought

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/02/...opping-though/



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Old 11-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #93
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The summon feature is truly the lamest tech to be preemptively launched. I understand there will be a place for this in the future, especially with handicapped individuals, but it is ridiculous right now.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:47 PM   #94
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I think electric car technology will be revolutionized in the following few years. Charging will be much faster and battery weight and capacity will be improved significantly. I am waiting for that while enjoying my FRS. And looking at their latest acquisitions, all this will be coming from Tesla again.
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:35 PM   #95
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I think electric car technology will be revolutionized in the following few years. Charging will be much faster and battery weight and capacity will be improved significantly. I am waiting for that while enjoying my FRS. And looking at their latest acquisitions, all this will be coming from Tesla again.


You know who owns Porsche’s 800V system that charges in 15mins right? VW. The tech revolution came from Tesla, but the adoption wave will ride the big manufacturers.
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:03 PM   #96
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You know who owns Porsche’s 800V system that charges in 15mins right? VW. The tech revolution came from Tesla, but the adoption wave will ride the big manufacturers.
VW definitely has the capital and the resources, and they are clearly going all in on EV technology. It will take them a while to catch up to Tesla, to build their gigafactory and to build their own supercharger network, but they definitely will. The new VW ID3 looks pretty cool. It remains to be seen if they can get the price right, while staying competitive in features, performance, ease of supercharging, range, etc to Telsa, but as I said, they will be able to catch up quickly, especially since Tesla opened its patens for fair use.

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Old 11-08-2019, 05:31 PM   #97
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You know who owns Porsche’s 800V system that charges in 15mins right? VW. The tech revolution came from Tesla, but the adoption wave will ride the big manufacturers.
I will call it revolutionary if <5 min charging, >500 mile range with new battery chemistry and hybrid use of super capacitors. VW and others are still in the adoption stage of current tech, Tesla is working on the next tech. There is only Tesla who is betting everything on electric cars. My impression from their attitude is that VW, Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, etc would just be relieved if electric cars go away and they could keep selling gasoline cars.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:47 PM   #98
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I will call it revolutionary if <5 min charging, >500 mile range with new battery chemistry and hybrid use of super capacitors. VW and others are still in the adoption stage of current tech, Tesla is working on the next tech. There is only Tesla who is betting everything on electric cars. My impression from their attitude is that VW, Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, etc would just be relieved if electric cars go away and they could keep selling gasoline cars.
That's not how it really works...electric motors are very well understood, anyone can hire a few electrical engineers to design all the stuff. Elon Musk has been making very good moves, first using induction motors, then reluctance motors, but now everyone else is going to copy.

In the longer run, aluminum or magnesium ion will replace lithium ion battery chemistry since they have inherently higher energy density. When the first experimental next-gen batteries become viable, the playing field will be completely level between Tesla and everyone else. That's when the big car makers are going to invest in big battery plants, and Tesla's drivetrain advantage will evaporate.

Their best asset right now is Autopilot. I don't expect that advantage to hold much longer either.
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