Not your typical 1st and 2nd gear issue post

[jesslax32]

Hello,

I picked up my 2013MY frs about 6 weeks ago and it's been a blast.

Last week I began to notice that my transmission was able to engage synchros in 1st and 2nd gear at highway speeds (clutch was not engaged, only shifted towards 1st and 2nd). I noticed this as I was trying to identify the TSB for the clutch release bearing (at the time I was unaware of the TSB).

A better description is: when going highway speeds, say 65 mph, I am able to put the clutch in, put my gear shift into first gear, and hear the transmission whine and wind up to the output shaft's speed. If I put it into 2nd, it does this as well, just not as loud or fast as its of course a different ratio. It's as if the speed gate that stops me from doing something dumb isn't there.

I bought the car cert. used from a Toyota dealer with 30,000 miles and I've since added 2000 DD and light spirited driving. I'm not hard on the car, but I find I can be demanding. I'm going to try to bring the car in to see if this can be identified and fixed under my 1yr/12000 mile warranty or the 7/100000, but I'd like to ask if anyone has had a similar problem here.

I don't think it's at all possible to get a video as cabin noise is louder than the gear whine.

Edit: I should add that I did something dumb the other day, I did a standing start in the rain and let the clutch off too hard because my shifter went absolutely wild. I immediately released the clutch but I genuinely don't think this contributed to the problem above as I did this after I began to notice the weird shifting characteristics.

Thanks for any input!

[EndlessAzure]

At most, it should be hard to put into first gear. You should feel a stiff resistance, but you can also surely overcome it if you wanted. There's no physical lockout on first, or on any gear for that matter, on the FT86 platform.

From that point of view, it's not abnormal that you can put it into first gear. Just like how the gates for other gears aren't a fail-safe to keep you from overreving/moneyshifting.

It's abnormal if the action is effortless.


P.S. you're already straining the transmission if you're actually gating into first.

[jesslax32]

Ok, interesting thanks.

I definitely feel the stiff resistance but that comes from what seems to be the transmission winding up. To clarify, I don't let the transmission come up to speed when I'm going 65, I just hear it for a split second and release. At lower speeds ~30 mph is when I fully engage first, and i know that 30 is within first gears range but i just found this to different than when I picked up the car.

Thanks for your help!

I thought that I shouldn't be able to gate into 1st or 2nd at all at faster speeds but it seems that's not the case, definitely something different from my old cars.

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by jesslax32

Ok, interesting thanks.

I definitely feel the stiff resistance but that comes from what seems to be the transmission winding up. To clarify, I don't let the transmission come up to speed when I'm going 65, I just hear it for a split second and release. At lower speeds ~30 mph is when I fully engage first, and i know that 30 is within first gears range but i just found this to different than when I picked up the car.

Thanks for your help!

I thought that I shouldn't be able to gate into 1st or 2nd at all at faster speeds but it seems that's not the case, definitely something different from my old cars.

Yes, exactly. The stiffness you feel is from is the synchro itself. It won't mesh until the speeds match (which it can't easily since its not meant to mesh at that speed) or you overcome it with additional friction from your action on the shifter throw. Plus, first gear has two syncros.


The syncro stiffness is the only reminder that you could be misshifting. I've overreved from 5th to 3rd at 100mph on the track. It's not too bad, but it's an anecdote that this manual will do as you say, whether or not it's right

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by jesslax32

Ok, interesting thanks.

I definitely feel the stiff resistance but that comes from what seems to be the transmission winding up. To clarify, I don't let the transmission come up to speed when I'm going 65, I just hear it for a split second and release. At lower speeds ~30 mph is when I fully engage first, and i know that 30 is within first gears range but i just found this to different than when I picked up the car.

Thanks for your help!

I thought that I shouldn't be able to gate into 1st or 2nd at all at faster speeds but it seems that's not the case, definitely something different from my old cars.

Why on Earth would you ever try to engage 1st or 2nd gear (with or without the clutch in) at highway speeds? I hope that you don’t really downshift into first at 30mph either... that would be very rough on you drivetrain.... starting from a standstill and revving out to redline in 1st gear would be a different story. The simple solution is, stop looking for problems that don’t exist and just use the right gear for the given speed that you need to go

[jesslax32]

You misread. This wasn't happening previously. The transmission is actually acting differently than it was two weeks ago. Why would I want to be in those gears at high speed?

I'm trying to identify the cause of this change.

Please try to add something constructive.

[ermax]

I do t know if any manuals with a physical lockout. I think it’s just so hard to get a car into 1st at speed that people make the assumption there is a lockout when really there isn’t. Our cars have triple cone syncros in 1st which wasn’t as common on older cars. I wouldn’t put it in 1st at 65 though, it’s hell on your syncros. You definitely don’t want to have a brain fart and release the clutch that’s for sure. You’ll end up with the rear end in the front and some bent valves.

Edit: You say this is different then before. I seriously doubt that. You just never paid attention before or something. There is nothing in the tranny that could go bad that would cause it to be easier to put t in 1st at 65. The opposite would be true. As the syncros wear it would be harder to accomplish this not easier.

[jesslax32]

Alrighty, I'll keep an eye open and see if things change or progress. Could very well be something I never noticed.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by NCtoBRZ

I hope that you don’t really downshift into first at 30mph either... that would be very rough on you drivetrain.... starting from a standstill and revving out to redline in 1st gear would be a different story.

If you rev-match properly, downshifting into 1st at any "first gear" speed shouldn't be an issue, or bad for the drivetrain... I can smoothly downshift into 1st st 20 MPH with just a blip of the throttle.

[tehShirt]

Why attempt to put the car in these gears at highway speeds? I see you mentioned identifying the TSB, but I think you are asking for trouble trying to do this.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by jesslax32

You misread. This wasn't happening previously. The transmission is actually acting differently than it was two weeks ago. Why would I want to be in those gears at high speed?

I'm trying to identify the cause of this change.

Please try to add something constructive.

I didn’t misread anything. I would say it is constructive advising you not to screw around trying to engage gears at highway speeds that will never be used at highway speeds... clutch in or not. As mentioned, you are just misremembering how something was working before... there is no “cause of this change” to be identified.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by jesslax32

Hello,

I picked up my 2013MY frs about 6 weeks ago and it's been a blast.

A better description is: when going highway speeds, say 65 mph, I am able to put the clutch in, put my gear shift into first gear, and hear the transmission whine and wind up to the output shaft's speed............I'm going to try to bring the car in to see if this can be identified and fixed under my 1yr/12000 mile warranty or the 7/100000, but I'd like to ask if anyone has had a similar problem here.


Thanks for any input!

Hello jesslax32, and welcome to ......The Forum .......

What's to identify .... ??

What's the "problem" ...??

What are you going to ask them to "fix" under warranty ...??

Oh, I once had an NC Miata that I could put into first gear at 45 MPH.

NO, I didn't let the clutch out ....

Why did I do that .. ?? Because some poster on the miata forum said it couldn't be done.

Did I ever do that again .... ?? No, why would I .......


humfrz

[Decep]

jesus christ threads like this make you really worry about buying used cars.