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Old 02-03-2014, 06:29 PM   #29
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Yes, same rules apply regarding points and categories. But if you find NorCal can have more or less advantage by doing something different, let me know. I'm sure the drafters' of the rules are a quick PM away
I'm sure there will be no shortage of people that'll want a ruleset changed based on their current level of modification. I don't wanna be THAT guy.

Besides, it would probably be a good idea to keep a consistent rule set between SoCal and NorCal since it would offer the chance for easy crossover between the series.

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Disqualification from one category to another just means you have that much more you can do. This isn't a challenge of deep pockets, but more about skill.
I hear what you're saying in theory but in practice the deck is stacked against the guy with 0.75 pts vs. the field of people with up to 3.5 pts. One can quickly grow tired of bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:46 PM   #30
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1. The success of this series lies in the hands of you guys. If you guys consistently show up, the series will gain momentum, and be successful. On the other hand, if you just post on the forum a lot, but rarely ever actually show up, then... well the series will flop like the other chrono series.
I think people need motivation to keep showing up. In my observation there has to be something in it for EVERY participant to make them want to keep spending the funds required for an expensive hobby. I've observed this in both many different areas and chrono and autoX were 2 of them.
Perhaps you can share what kept people coming back in SoCal. Was it really that people were just gung-ho for the series? Was it a tight knit group of core friends that keep it going?

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2. NCRC is overly strict with offs. They want you to compete in a series that culminates with going fast, but penalize you if you make a mistake trying to go fast.
While true, this isn't what kept S2000 Chrono from prospering. I think it had more to do with the lack of committed people along with the level of experienced allowed in to compete. By the time all the barriers of entry were fullfilled the driver pool was relatively small. Barriers included only Open (advanced) or approved Point-by (high-intermediate) drivers, modified enough to pass the broomstick test, split into make, further split by modification. There just weren't that many of us left to make a good series.

It also hurt that that the SoCal group "sponsored" (read: bought) the racing/track sub-forum on S2ki.com and basically censcored/snuffed out much of our visibility in our most influential forum. Complete disservice to NorCal because the SoCal series did absolutely nothing for our market.

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4. Citytech may be a better partner. Contact Patrick Chio and let him know you know Mike with the white CR that drives the CSG brz.
Perhaps a sponsor might entice them from their current stance.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:47 PM   #31
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One can quickly grow tired of bringing a knife to a gun fight.
CSG BRZ vs... Evasive FRS.

Halp.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:52 PM   #32
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I think people need motivation to keep showing up. In my observation there has to be something in it for EVERY participant to make them want to keep spending the funds required for an expensive hobby. I've observed this in both many different areas and chrono and autoX were 2 of them.
Perhaps you can share what kept people coming back in SoCal. Was it really that people were just gung-ho for the series? Was it a tight knit group of core friends that keep it going?
It's all about building a community. The 86CUP draws out far more people than the 86 Challenge and 86 Battle. Why? The community. I think we can all agree that the rules for the 2013 86CUP were by far the worst of the 3 (addressing an above post about inequality within classes).

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While true, this isn't what kept S2000 Chrono from prospering. I think it had more to do with the lack of committed people along with the level of experienced allowed in to compete. By the time all the barriers of entry were fullfilled the driver pool was relatively small. Barriers included only Open (advanced) or approved Point-by (high-intermediate) drivers, modified enough to pass the broomstick test, split into make, further split by modification. There just weren't that many of us left to make a good series.
The largest socal s2k series consists of drivers that are NOT competitive, skill wise, and the series also has the most open ruleset (you can make STUPID fast cars and fit into classes). Again, it's all about community. A friend an I showed up to this larger series, wiped the floor, and never went back. The drivers there like to compete amongst themselves, and it's not fun for them to get demolished. Likewise, my friend and I never went back; it's not fun when there's no incentive for us to push to go faster.

I do agree regarding the stringent rules: I never ran NCRC's chrono series because I don't have a roll bar. I legitimately pass broomstick. I was told my first and only NCRC day, that if I went 2 off, I'd be sent home, because I didn't have a roll bar.

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It also hurt that that the SoCal group "sponsored" (read: bought) the racing/track sub-forum on S2ki.com and basically censcored/snuffed out much of our visibility in our most influential forum. Complete disservice to NorCal because the SoCal series did absolutely nothing for our market.
It was a defensive move toward another organization that tried to encroach on established territory. NCRC was collateral damage, but here's the thing: The other group posts exclusively in the socal section, and consistently has larger turnouts. Again, it comes down to the participants.

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Perhaps a sponsor might entice them from their current stance.
Show us the turnouts, and CSG will make something materialize.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:00 PM   #33
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I guess if you're serious about winning trophies, you'll read the rules carefully and build a car to the maximum under one of the predefined classes. I could be totally wrong here but I feel like the vast majority of the NorCal community that is interested in doing track days, is more out to have fun and learn how to be a better driver.

At least that is where I stand personally. I am not particularly competitive, but if there is a system in place (86CUP) already and it's a minimal cost to participate (transponder rental, maybe some other enrollment costs) then I'd join in it whenever I can. I don't currently have the means/freedom to campaign an entire season in the competition, but that might change in the future and I'd love to be a part of this anyway I can.

Oh and let me put in a good word for CSG Mike and CounterSpace Garage... well before they ever started sponsoring anything, they've been a great resource to me and to this 86 community sharing all kinds of knowledge and help to anyone who asks. Reason enough alone to encourage folks to support them and buy any performance-oriented goodies from them when possible.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:31 PM   #34
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I guess if you're serious about winning trophies, you'll read the rules carefully and build a car to the maximum under one of the predefined classes. I could be totally wrong here but I feel like the vast majority of the NorCal community that is interested in doing track days, is more out to have fun and learn how to be a better driver.

At least that is where I stand personally. I am not particularly competitive, but if there is a system in place (86CUP) already and it's a minimal cost to participate (transponder rental, maybe some other enrollment costs) then I'd join in it whenever I can. I don't currently have the means/freedom to campaign an entire season in the competition, but that might change in the future and I'd love to be a part of this anyway I can.

Oh and let me put in a good word for CSG Mike and CounterSpace Garage... well before they ever started sponsoring anything, they've been a great resource to me and to this 86 community sharing all kinds of knowledge and help to anyone who asks. Reason enough alone to encourage folks to support them and buy any performance-oriented goodies from them when possible.
^Pretty much my feelings. I'm in the same boat of doing trackdays for self improvement (I specifically don't time myself during the event and check myself after with my gopro footage). With work & family, I'm limited with what I could do, but @MyRx let me know what I could do to help
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:08 PM   #35
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I guess if you're serious about winning trophies, you'll read the rules carefully and build a car to the maximum under one of the predefined classes. I could be totally wrong here but I feel like the vast majority of the NorCal community that is interested in doing track days, is more out to have fun and learn how to be a better driver.

At least that is where I stand personally. I am not particularly competitive, but if there is a system in place (86CUP) already and it's a minimal cost to participate (transponder rental, maybe some other enrollment costs) then I'd join in it whenever I can. I don't currently have the means/freedom to campaign an entire season in the competition, but that might change in the future and I'd love to be a part of this anyway I can.

Oh and let me put in a good word for CSG Mike and CounterSpace Garage... well before they ever started sponsoring anything, they've been a great resource to me and to this 86 community sharing all kinds of knowledge and help to anyone who asks. Reason enough alone to encourage folks to support them and buy any performance-oriented goodies from them when possible.
I would feel this way. While I was seriously looking at autox the mod restrictions like oil coolers turn me off. I will do a bit but have no feeling to get competative because I like to do what I want with my car. 86cup rules are very welcoming in that aspect. I would much rather skip 3 autox and run a track day. While I am competative by nature I am driven by wanting to improve and love the group, so racing eachother would be fun no matter what I feel like.
@MyRx will it be specific track days or basically anything on the ncrc schedule?
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:57 AM   #36
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I'm in when ever im at nrcr events which will be many this year
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:50 AM   #37
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I would feel this way. While I was seriously looking at autox the mod restrictions like oil coolers turn me off. I will do a bit but have no feeling to get competative because I like to do what I want with my car. 86cup rules are very welcoming in that aspect. I would much rather skip 3 autox and run a track day. While I am competative by nature I am driven by wanting to improve and love the group, so racing eachother would be fun no matter what I feel like.
@MyRx will it be specific track days or basically anything on the ncrc schedule?
There will be no door-to-door racing per se. No dedicated "86Cup session/run group" as of yet. But if you are in the same run group as another 86 participate as well as in the same car-class (stock, street, modified, etc) then yeah, you may find yourself side by side trying to get the faster time. Abide by NCRC rules and run group etiquettes please.

Let's say, you and I are in the same run group / same session but your car is in the stock class and mine is in the modified, your times will pool with only those in stock class, mine will pool with those in modified class. Your class depends on the points given by the mods on your car.

This could very well exist, but let's say a driver who has a low-scoring car (stock, street class) just happens to be so fast that he dominates that class - no one in that class is relatively close, then that car/driver can be placed with other drivers (regardless of car class) who has relatively similar times. @CSG_Mike falls in this category of "Super Modified" when the modified class has far more mods in their cars.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:13 AM   #38
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There will be no extra enrollment fee. The transponder fee as of now IS $25 but depending on the level of participation, that may be reduced and/or packaged into an 86Cup registration. What you pay with NCRC is what you pay, 86Cup participation is voluntary. That said, if you chose NOT to participate, you would still be invited to anything 86Cup related. You just may not be able to win anything 86Cup related as well. Just because you don't participate doesn't mean you can't enjoy 86 ownership like the rest of us.

Schedule wise, NCRC has ~28 tracks day, some of which are also Chrono days. Following suit of SoCal's 12 days, of which only 9 are counted, I'd like your help to pick the 12 days. I've been told that holding the 86Cup days with the Chrono days is beneficial. So if you have a preference of days, you can post it here or you can PM me. Obviously high participation is the goal so if most people can't attend a particular track day (weekday, holiday, etc), then we may not choose those days. Also, if we can conclude to a set of track days, I will forward it to NCRC and see what "encouragement" they may or can provide.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:56 PM   #39
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There will be no extra enrollment fee. The transponder fee as of now IS $25 but depending on the level of participation, that may be reduced and/or packaged into an 86Cup registration. What you pay with NCRC is what you pay, 86Cup participation is voluntary. That said, if you chose NOT to participate, you would still be invited to anything 86Cup related. You just may not be able to win anything 86Cup related as well. Just because you don't participate doesn't mean you can't enjoy 86 ownership like the rest of us.

Schedule wise, NCRC has ~28 tracks day, some of which are also Chrono days. Following suit of SoCal's 12 days, of which only 9 are counted, I'd like your help to pick the 12 days. I've been told that holding the 86Cup days with the Chrono days is beneficial. So if you have a preference of days, you can post it here or you can PM me. Obviously high participation is the goal so if most people can't attend a particular track day (weekday, holiday, etc), then we may not choose those days. Also, if we can conclude to a set of track days, I will forward it to NCRC and see what "encouragement" they may or can provide.
Obviously let others weigh in, but I'm thinking track days on a Saturday will have best chance of good strong participation.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:06 PM   #40
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Obviously let others weigh in, but I'm thinking track days on a Saturday will have best chance of good strong participation.
weekends work best.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:26 PM   #41
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In previous Chrono run groups, it was hard to get all of the people in that wanted to participate because they weren't at the skill level of Open group (most chrono participants) and certain NCRC approved people from Point-by.

Is the concept that 86cup won't run in the chrono group and the participants just run in their natural run group (solo, point-by) and hope they can get enough clean laps and/or point-bys to record a decent time?

I remember watching a video w/ PMok @ Laguna Seca awhile back where he posted captions in the vid about how frustrated he was about not getting a point-by from a red S2k in the solo group. Obviously, that sort of thing will kill a time attack.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:35 PM   #42
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In terms of schedule i think saturdays are best. And while I may be in the minority due to it being closer to me, could one or two of the 12 be Buttonwillow? They have some on the ncrc schedule and since socal runs it to it would be nice to see how we stack up.
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