Innovate Motorsports Twin Screw Supercharger Kit for FR-S/BRZ

[VSGTS14]

it's hard to get torque from this tiny 2.0, but it is possible. awaiting pictures from innovative and more info!!

[st0k3d]

Originally Posted by subatoy

yeah but I already know that superchargers do everything better than turbo kits in terms of power curves so I'm assuming that's going to be the case.

You should do actual research, there can be many instances where a turbocharger will beat out supercharger kits power curves.

Supercharger kits are super linear versus a properly setup turbo can make power almost immediately and hold it there to redline.

So if you want to make power as early as possible, many times a proper turbo setup is the way to go.

Look at S2000 supercharger dyno plots for examples, I feel this is a good comparison to the FA20 motor in terms of power delivery and torque production.

I am not saying this is definitely what is going to happen with this engine, but to use blanket statements is wrong.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by st0k3d

You should do actual research, there can be many instances where a turbocharger will beat out supercharger kits power curves.

Supercharger kits are super linear versus a properly setup turbo can make power almost immediately and hold it there to redline.

So if you want to make power as early as possible, many times a proper turbo setup is the way to go.

Not quite.

He is talking about a twin screw supercharger in which case no turbo can compare to the on demand boost and response it affords. There is no need to spool a turbo even a super small turbo has some lag.

A twin screw is instant boost with the depression of the throttle.

The superchargers you are talking about are the centrifugal sc's which create boost linearly as the rpms rise the boost creeps up to max by the end of the rpm band.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Not quite.

He is talking about a twin screw supercharger in which case no turbo can compare to the on demand boost and response it affords. There is no need to spool a turbo even a super small turbo has some lag.

A twin screw is instant boost with the depression of the throttle.

The superchargers you are talking about are the centrifugal sc's which create boost linearly as the rpms rise the boost creeps up to max by the end of the rpm band.

this! check out this website. http://www.boefabrication.com/index....-supercharging compare a 2ZZ supercharged out of a lotus elise with the above s2000 supercharged dyno, that would be a better comparison to show how power and torque are made with positive displacement superchargers

[madfast]

Originally Posted by st0k3d

You should do actual research, there can be many instances where a turbocharger will beat out supercharger kits power curves.

Supercharger kits are super linear versus a properly setup turbo can make power almost immediately and hold it there to redline.

So if you want to make power as early as possible, many times a proper turbo setup is the way to go.

Look at S2000 supercharger dyno plots for examples, I feel this is a good comparison to the FA20 motor in terms of power delivery and torque production.

I am not saying this is definitely what is going to happen with this engine, but to use blanket statements is wrong.

fwiw it looks like those dynos come from ultimate racing themselves so its not exactly an unbiased, third party comparison...

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

this! check out this website. http://www.boefabrication.com/index....-supercharging compare a 2ZZ supercharged out of a lotus elise with the above s2000 supercharged dyno, that would be a better comparison to show how power and torque are made with positive displacement superchargers

imo, if you're ok with "modest" gains, then SC is the way to go... if you want 500 hp, go straight to turbo. in between is the centrifugal SC, which can either be seen as the "odd man out", or the perfect compromise...

[Mechazawa]

We all need to remember that throttle response and low end torque are different things. In general turbos are better at low end torque (even compared to positive displacement SC designs), and superchargers are better at throttle response.

Different priorities for different drivers--choose your weapon, but know the facts.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by madfast

imo, if you're ok with "modest" gains, then SC is the way to go... if you want 500 hp, go straight to turbo. in between is the centrifugal SC, which can either be seen as the "odd man out", or the perfect compromise...

this car doesn't need 500hp to perform. sure its going to be faster in a highway pull or drag racing. but 350hp with great throttle response is where this car will shine in tight windy canyons or on an Auto-X track. mechawaza has point however that the turbo will make more low end torque at the cost of a little transient response or "lag." centrifugial SC is a middle man, it gives great peak power but without the midrange of a twin-screw SC, and no lag like a turbo. :happy0180:

This is my opinion anyways not trying to take shots at anybody.

Hopefully innovate's manifold has enough room for a eaton R1050 or R1320 TVS blower (or rumored next generation R1100 emailed to confirm that.) 350whp on pump gas = perfect combo once my weight reduction is done.

[Carwhisperer]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

this car doesn't need 500hp to perform. sure its going to be faster in a highway pull or drag racing. but 350hp with great throttle response is where this car will shine in tight windy canyons or on an Auto-X track. mechawaza has point however that the turbo will make more low end torque at the cost of a little transient response or "lag." centrifugial SC is a middle man, it gives great peak power but without the midrange of a twin-screw SC, and no lag like a turbo. :happy0180:

This is my opinion anyways not trying to take shots at anybody.

Hopefully innovate's manifold has enough room for a eaton R1050 or R1320 TVS blower (or rumored next generation R1100 emailed to confirm that.) 350whp on pump gas = perfect combo once my weight reduction is done.

How are you going to go about reducing weight from your vehicle?

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by Carwhisperer

How are you going to go about reducing weight from your vehicle?

my car is 2742 with a full tank of gas and everything in. 6lb Lithium battery (-20lbs), remove trunk junk (~35lbs), Ap Racing Front brakes (20lbs) and Rears if weight savings are there, 18x8 weds TC105N + 245/35/18 Continental DW (~5-6lbs per corner), Header (4-5lbs), 2.5" Custom Titianum Front-pipe (HFC), overpipe and mid-pipe no resonator (~10-12lbs?), single carbon-fiber Axle back (i will be making this myself) probably about 25lbs. (this car is going to be loud) so in total i should be able to shave approx. 140 +/- 10lbs. without having to start taking out interior pieces.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

this car doesn't need 500hp to perform.

of course, but we already have seen huge power from the turbo kits, even at this super early stage. if you're the type of person who is ok with a modest gain, with great response then SC is probably the best option. however, a lot of people have dyno sheet envy and will not stop until they have enough internet props that their e-**** is a mile long. for those guys, only a turbo will suffice.

mechawaza has point however that the turbo will make more low end torque at the cost of a little transient response or "lag."

generally turbos that have great tq down low, will not have as much up top. and if you're not going have a lot up top, why bother with a turbo?

centrifugial SC is a middle man, it gives great peak power but without the midrange of a twin-screw SC, and no lag like a turbo. :happy0180:

with the right setup, i can see a cent SC being the most popular choice...

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by madfast

a lot of people have dyno sheet envy and will not stop until they have enough internet props that their e-**** is a mile long.

so true

Originally Posted by madfast

generally turbos that have great tq down low, will not have as much up top. and if you're not going have a lot up top, why bother with a turbo?

a properly sized turbo will give good torque down low and provide power up top. say GT28RS with a short piping route for this car. bigger turbos can be decent especially if they are properly setup twin-scroll snails. but will still lose the response and low end to some extent.

Originally Posted by madfast

with the right setup, i can see a cent SC being the most popular choice...

thats a good point, its definitely i would say the easiest option for those who like the top end no doubt and its also very easy on components to each his own though right? :happy0180:

[madfast]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

a properly sized turbo will give good torque down low and provide power up top. say GT28RS with a short piping route for this car.

the question is whether or not a proper SC kit can match or come close to such a set up. if yes, then the SC will always have better response on its side. SEMA is going to be a battleground for FRS/BRZ owners

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by madfast

SEMA is going to be a battleground for FRS/BRZ owners

i agree!

[JoeBoxer]

I don't think this kit will be anywhere near what some of you are thinking power wise, figure a 50% gain in whp so roughly 240-250 at the wheels most likely. Hopefully near that in torque numbers and i will be happy.