Why 0° Camber?

[gen3v8]

I`d like to know how your foot can just slip off the brake pedal.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Pat

I've lived with three and a half degrees for the last 10 years. And have driven 5°. I'm not saying one and a half is ideal. Just that it is a significant difference from zero.

It's been a while. 1.5 would just seem insignificant now. Good for a street car.

1.5 would be an improvement not a detriment and would not lead to spinning IMO.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by gen3v8

I`d like to know how your foot can just slip off the brake pedal.

Newish ON “Cloud” shoes I haven’t worn since last time it was warm (Oct?). Foot positioned for heel/toe. Slipped right off brake pedal at turn-in for U-turn! These are not great driving shoes…

[ZDan]

-1.5 is a lot better than 0 degrees front camber for sure. But you don’t spin due to having more front grip. You spin from lack of rear grip, likely due to driver error (big lift, slow hands , etc). The idea that adding 1.5 front camber *caused* 360 is laughable. Do the same thing with 0 front camber and you’ll still spin.

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by ZDan

1.5 is a decent move on the right direction. But a lot more is needed to extract max grip. In any case if someone went from 0 front camber to -1.5, it’s absurd to ascribe any spins to this (not so) radical change in front camber. Also, this car suffers massively from being nose-heavy, so negative front camber is fricking crucial to get any kind of decent balance. -1.5 front camber is a step in the right direction but not nearly enough to balance the car.

For anyone who finds this understeery car to be too spinny with a mere 1.5deg front camber, I recommend a LOT more track time.

From other conversations here, -1.5 is about the max you can get with the crash bolts, correct?

I wouldn't mind doing a few minor things to improve the turn in and handling of the car but I'm not too keen from straying very far from stock, i.e. camber plates etc. Going with -1 ~ -1.5 sounds like it would be a nice improvement.

Originally Posted by Pat

I've lived with three and a half degrees for the last 10 years. And have driven 5°. I'm not saying one and a half is ideal. Just that it is a significant difference from zero.

What does that much negative camber do to your tire wear? Or do you care?

I guy I know in our autocross region runs -3 on his ATS and he chews through tires pretty quickly, even with fairly frequent rotations.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

From other conversations here, -1.5 is about the max you can get with the crash bolts, correct?

I wouldn't mind doing a few minor things to improve the turn in and handling of the car but I'm not too keen from straying very far from stock, i.e. camber plates etc. Going with -1 ~ -1.5 sounds like it would be a nice improvement.

With Peddars offset top mounts and bolts, might get-2? For sure even 1.5 will be an improvement…

What does that much negative camber do to your tire wear? Or do you care?

With reasonable toe (I run 0 all around) tire wear isn’t a prob. I’m running -2.5 to -3.5 front, -2.8 rear camber and here’s what my winter tires look like after 3 winters, maybe 15k miles:

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

I guy I know in our autocross region runs -3 on his ATS and he chews through tires pretty quickly, even with fairly frequent rotations.

On our cars, running -3 front for track or autoX will not hurt, will prolong useful life.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Newish ON “Cloud” shoes I haven’t worn since last time it was warm (Oct?). Foot positioned for heel/toe. Slipped right off brake pedal at turn-in for U-turn! These are not great driving shoes…

I had my foot slip off the brake pedal once, basically same scenario as you except it was with dress shoes. Might consider something like the Cusco throttle pedal extension. Allows you to keep your foot more squarely over the brake pedal when heel-toe downshifting. Pretty much eliminates the possibility of slippage.

Originally Posted by Desertnate

From other conversations here, -1.5 is about the max you can get with the crash bolts, correct?

By putting the SPC 81305 camber bolt in the lower hole and moving the lower bolt to the top hole, you should be able to get around -2 to -2.6 degrees camber up front. Cheap and effective. Just be aware it reduces clearance between the tire and strut.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

What does that much negative camber do to your tire wear? Or do you care?

I guy I know in our autocross region runs -3 on his ATS and he chews through tires pretty quickly, even with fairly frequent rotations.

Your toe settings will have more impact on wear than camber. I run 0 toe up front on my street car. For an autoX car I'd likely run some toe out to help turn in, and I suspect that's what he is doing as well.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

From other conversations here, -1.5 is about the max you can get with the crash bolts, correct?

I wouldn't mind doing a few minor things to improve the turn in and handling of the car but I'm not too keen from straying very far from stock, i.e. camber plates etc. Going with -1 ~ -1.5 sounds like it would be a nice improvement.



What does that much negative camber do to your tire wear? Or do you care?

I guy I know in our autocross region runs -3 on his ATS and he chews through tires pretty quickly, even with fairly frequent rotations.

Yeah, and you'd be lucky to get -1.5*. Think I had -1.3* with just crash bolts. If you aren't constrained by class rules, I'd go with one of the cammed camber bolts. You'll be able to get a little more out of those.


As far as tire wear, it's negligible, especially if you do any type of performance driving. On my Camaro I had before the BRZ I was running about -3* and was still wearing the outside edges the fastest. On my daily tires, I never really noticed any significant camber wear. On the BRZ I'm running -4* up front, and finally not chewing up the outside shoulder of my autocross tires. I imagine it'll shorten the life of my daily tires by some amount, but doubt it will be enough to outweigh the additional life I get out of my autox sets.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Pat

No, there isn't a need for it. It just handles better, even within legal limits.

Agree, but Subaru needs to make these for everyone, not just enthusiasts, even if they market to us. So they cheap out and count on us to make the changes. Besides my car came with Prius tires so it’s not like grip was on their mind.

[mr.whiskers]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Nope. You just need more practice behind the wheel.

If you haven't reached the point you can steer the car with the throttle.....

oh 100%
Last summer was my first time ever doing any performance driving in a rwd car.

But even a noob like me could feel a difference. With 0 camber car would understeer more at the limit, which felt safer to me. After getting camber first few runs I was very surprised that handling changed that much, I had to change my driving style completely.

All I am saying is for the street 0 camber would be safer because understeering is better than oversteering (although I'd imagine in worst case scenario the traction control would save you anyway)

[mr.whiskers]

Originally Posted by ZDan

1.5 is a decent move on the right direction. But a lot more is needed to extract max grip. In any case if someone went from 0 front camber to -1.5, it’s absurd to ascribe any spins to this (not so) radical change in front camber. Also, this car suffers massively from being nose-heavy, so negative front camber is fricking crucial to get any kind of decent balance. -1.5 front camber is a step in the right direction but not nearly enough to balance the car. For anyone who finds this understeery car to be too spinny with a mere 1.5deg front camber, I recommend a LOT more track time.

Oh for sure can't wait for the autox season to start. Last season after couple of events I didn't find the car too spinny at all. But my first event with some negative camber I 100% could feel the difference.

My point is for an experienced driver 2.5 degree negative camber might be of benefit. But that story where you are describing saving yourself going into the turn because of the negative camber I am pretty sure if 99% of regular people who just drive the car on the street would try that - they would end in a guardrail. And since this car is built for the street and the average Joe in mind it kind of makes sense to have 0 camber.

[CedN]

My Goodyears Eagle f1s after 1 track day on std alignment, worn half way down to the rim edge . Camber helped it a bit, i only have 1.6deg nowdays since it does almost only road driving, but the std granny alignment is a bit crap. (Gen1 though)