08-04-2021, 05:27 PM | #197 |
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08-04-2021, 07:22 PM | #198 | |
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Soooo I don't know if that's good news or bad news lol
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08-09-2021, 08:12 PM | #199 | |
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Unlike war, where loss of lives and where damage to land and property is more easily measurable, I don't think this will be so easy to measure. Moreover, it is well discussed how WWII, for example, helped get the world out of the Great Depression. While this point is heavily debated by economists, the argument that conflict and catastrophe is good for business has a historical basis. In fact, the GDP, as one metric, doesn't look so bad, so how would reparations be calculated? Every country chose how to respond to this pandemic. The response of each country determined how many died. South Korea had 41 deaths per million, and Japan had 121 deaths per million, and the US had 1,902 deaths per million, and the UK had 1,909 deaths per million. Should the US get more reparations because more died, or was that their fault? If the US is at fault for allowing more cases to occur, and subsequent contact tracing could show that US citizens spread the virus to more of the rest of the world and caused more subsequent deaths in other countries, then should the US also pay reparations to the rest of the world for their role in this pandemic? At worst, I could see China paying an international fine that goes to the WHO or something for use in humanitarian projects around the world, or maybe it would be used to fund vaccine research for booster shots or for vaccine production and delivery for poorer nations. Outside of that, reparations just seems like a dead end.
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08-09-2021, 08:49 PM | #200 |
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As I said, should the evidence prove that China is culpable as they were in 2003 with SARS then yes, let individual nations determine damages both monetary and punitive.
For the US, that means formation through an Act of Congress of a non-partisan commission with power to subpoena data, documents and witnesses with no exceptions. That means no WHO. Instead, select experts from fields with special expertise like doctors, researchers, scientists, economists, intel chiefs and others without conflicts of interest. With millions dead worldwide and billions of American taxpayer dollars diverted into Operation Warp Speed, if China is found to be the source they should pay directly to the US Treasury and through ongoing tariffs, plus confiscation of their US based assets should be on the table. |
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08-09-2021, 09:51 PM | #201 | ||
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If the commission found that the US was just or more culpable than China in the outcomes of this pandemic then are you also in agreement that the US should pay reparations to other countries? If economists found out that investments made in Operation Warp Speed and in vaccine production and delivery actually stimulated the economy, resulting in a net gain, then would that absolve China from needing to pay or should they be thanked or rewarded? If economists find that tariffs and retaliatory tariffs only hurt the economy and drum up more tensions then is it worth pursing these things, especially if the fault was accidental or negligence? China's CDC contacted the WHO within weeks of patient zero versus 2-3 months for SARS 2003. It would be hard to even move from patient zero to actually acknowledging an event like this in a shorter time. At worst, notification could have been better by maybe a week, maybe. I just think this is a dead end issue. Quote:
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08-10-2021, 01:45 AM | #202 |
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I don't, and think you mention some controversial issues worth exploring.
Your hypothetical suggesting that if there is US complicity in COVID creation and distribution whether reparations are in order I think is valid. Except the only connection I've read about is the secret funneling of US taxpayer cash through an intermediary by Dr. Fauci to the Wuhan lab for GOF research so it isn't a systemic policy, but a rogue individual who should be held accountable, probably criminally. Comparing Operation Warp Speed and in your prior post war as in some way beneficial to economic growth is questionable if you personalize it. What other productive use would those same resources create without loss of life and property, like yours? Worrying about tariffs that "drum up more tensions" approaches the problem of accountability from weakness. There are already thousands of tariffs across the board going both ways between the US and take your pick of other nations. Additional focused tariffs will drive the point home that despite what the Chinese are claiming, that COVID originated in the US, should the evidence prove otherwise they will be held to account, tariffs being one way. Honestly, I'm surprised with your post given what you see daily in a hospital treating COVID patients. It seems so clinical given the distress faced by families of loved ones killed by COVID so yes, you could call it a dead end issue. |
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08-10-2021, 06:25 AM | #203 | |
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Back to OT. China should pay reparations to the US? Yeah OK.
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08-10-2021, 11:19 AM | #204 | |
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Reparations...lol. There are three ways this goes:
If you are SURE that there was a covered up lab leak and the intelligence agencies are going to come up with proof any minute now, you should become extremely rich very quickly. Go buy some puts on long term Chinese bonds, or short the CNH/USD pair with high leverage. |
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08-10-2021, 01:24 PM | #205 | ||||
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https://www.cfr.org/blog/92-percent-...-angry-farmers Quote:
If it was discovered that China developed the virus and released it on its own people with the intent of hurting its own people and hurting the world then that would be a different story, but we don't have evidence of this, and there is little reason to think such a thing is even remotely likely. What is far, far more likely is that there was an accident or negligence. An accident or negligence could have happened in the handling of samples collected remotely from livestock or wild animals, for instance. Does either of those absolve China? No. A fender bender accident is still an incident where someone is at fault. Where we differ is I see the crash as a fender bender irregardless of what comes after. You seem to see whatever comes after as inherently the fault of the initial accident. Whether we are talking about a drunk driver failing to stop after getting pushed down the hill, or we are talking about bumping into a car carrying $50k in bottles of Cristal that was destroyed, I see only the initial fault: someone bumped a car. Am I making sense with the analogies? It comes down to personal responsibility. The more time we spend trying to blame China for our failures, the less time we spend learning from our mistakes.
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08-10-2021, 01:44 PM | #206 | |
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08-10-2021, 06:12 PM | #207 |
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Covid probably won't go away. According to our former cdc director its been engineered to be more infectious. I know that's not possible because you guys still think it came from a spoiled bat sandwich but maybe you're wrong? God forbid. Anyways, its created an industry and thus will be with us for awhile.
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08-10-2021, 06:31 PM | #208 | ||||
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https://video.foxnews.com/v/6191134384001#sp=show-clips Quote:
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https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...tions-history/ Quote:
We need to get to the bottom of this and not with phony 90 day investigations by some of the bad actors involved. |
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08-10-2021, 06:39 PM | #209 | |
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08-10-2021, 07:21 PM | #210 | |
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The vaccine is 99% effective at preventing hospitalizations and death. Booster shots will likely be needed like the seasonal flu vaccine. Boosters will boost immunity and also cover new, emerging variants. Assuming the world all gets vaccinated, mutation rates are likely to drop. Viral loads are said to be similar from vaccinated to unvaccinated and symptomatic to asymptomatic, but the fact is the symptomatic and severely symptomatic are far more likely to be coughing, sneezing and breathing hard, yet they are easier to identify and isolate, which is why SARS-COV-1 was ultimately stopped. That, and SARS-COV-1 seems to survive less in warmer climates, making it more similar to the flu in that respect; ie, that is, something that comes in the winter and leaves in the summer. But, there may be hope that once we get vaccinations to a high level that transmission rates will drop, and then emergent variants/mutation rates will dramatically slow. We will have to see. https://www.news-medical.net/health/...-SARS-CoV.aspx It could be with us forever, especially if our food and pets are just as likely carriers. In the long term, it might not be a big deal. If deaths and hospitalizations drop to low, endemic levels then it will be manageable. Obviously, countries can manage the case and death rate well if they want. For instance, S. Korea has had 213k cases and 2k deaths at 50 million people, so that is a US population equivalent of 1.4 million cases and 13k deaths, which has 37 million cases and 600k deaths. Once people are vaccinated, I doubt if many places will see very many deaths if the people choose to take appropriate precautions when they do feel ill like wear a mask in public spaces like other countries.
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