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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 11-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #43
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The sound of an American engine makes me sick to my stomach. Ditch the long stroke and embrace DOHC.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:26 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mattles View Post
the ZR1 is practically an exotic though. No other american manf has the technology to put a drivetrain like that into a normal/practical car.
Wasn't the Fiero very similar conceptually (and the original MR2)?

None of the BRZ technology is off-the-hook; it's basic, proven stuff intelligently designed and integrated.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:26 PM   #45
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I reckon we'll just have to wait a wee bit more to see what an Italian, (or is it French) car company can do for Chrysler LLC.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Veloist View Post
Made in America as in inside a Toyota Factory in America, or made by an American company? (Or both?)

Me, my dad and I wouldn't have gotten one it if it was made by an American company. Actually we wouldn't have gotten it if it wasn't partially a Toyota.

If it was just a Subaru I would still appreciate it for being what it is though!
Man, I came around to you keeping your car in pristine condition, but this is taking it a bit too far. I understand brand loyalty, but say the roles were reversed -- what if the Mustang (with a 4-cylinder and Toyota-ish styling) and was actually the FR-S and the FR-S (with its handling balance and all its great characteristics that we love) was made by Ford? What if the Mustang-S was touted as the successor to the Hachiroku? Would you still buy that 4-banger Stang, even when the domestic-produced FR-S is clearly much more of a spiritual successor to the 86? Judging from your post, you would have. I don't agree with purchasing an inferior car just out of brand loyalty. That's like denying all the reviews panning the new 9th gen Civic and buying one anyway when a Mazdaspeed 3 is clearly the better value just because you liked Hondas.

It's your car and your purchase, but I just wouldn't do that.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by swift996 View Post
The sound of an American engine makes me sick to my stomach. Ditch the long stroke and embrace DOHC.
Aside from the GM and Chrysler V8s, how many domestic engines are not DOHC?

Further, how many have "long strokes", however you define that? If anything, everybody is moving to longer strokes these days for emissions reasons.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by swift996 View Post
The sound of an American engine makes me sick to my stomach. Ditch the long stroke and embrace DOHC.
What engine are you talking about? There are quite a few different "American" engines...

I would have purchased the car if it was made by a domestic manufacturer. I also almost purchased a Solstice GXP a few years back but the uncertainty with Pontiac kept me away.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:34 PM   #49
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THe Ford Focus seems to be getting some good reviews (for small-car enthusiasts).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-ride-feature
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:36 PM   #50
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THe Ford Focus seems to be getting some good reviews (for small-car enthusiasts).
If the BRZ fell through, that was number two on my list. Until I drove one.

I loved everything about it, until I tried to make a tight turn. The turning radius is abysmal, it's as big as a full-size truck's.

Ford didn't sweat the details.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:38 PM   #51
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As someone who OWNS a 2002 SVT Focus, lives in a household where one person owns a 2012 fusion and has a best friend that not only works for Ford but has a 2011 5.0 I can honestly say they've taken a large large step up in terms of quality and depreciative value. That's not limited to Ford the same can be said for each one of the big three.


Guys it's still too early to condemn any of the newer vehicles to poor quality and it's unfair to judge their current vehicles on the poor quality models of yesteryear. That's like telling someone to improve, watching them make the effort and do a lot better and then still tell them they're trash for what they did in the past.

Imagine if your boss had you take on a bunch of added responsibility at your job in preperation for a new position, now lets say you sucked at it. You start putting forth some serious effort and everyone around you sees you aren't the person you were before, you've really made some serious improvement. Now imagine your boss comes back and tells you he'd never hire you for that position because you suck at it. Is that fair? You start wondering if he's even been paying attention to the progress you made. That's why I feel bad for the big three, it seems now matter how well they do there'll still be people spreading the word they suck/people should stay away just cause of what they've done in the past .
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:45 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jduffy View Post
Talking with a coworker and he posed the question, if the BRZ were made by GM, Ford or Chrsyler would you have bought it?

And your answer is?
If the car was 100% the same but with different badges? Yes.

But I'd worry about long-term reliability if it had a Chrysler badge. A GM badge would have me worried about fit+finish until I could sit in one. A Ford badge would be best at this point in time.

Now, ask me if I would have been first in line at my local dealership to place an order for one if it were from GM or Chrysler...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #53
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #54
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You mean something like this?
130R
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/c...-detroit-2012/
It could happen.

Or not.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/19/f...ty-questioned/


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Assembled in America=Yes

Designed in America=Hell no
It's ironic because many "American" brand cars are designed somewhere else. Most of Ford's, especially the good stuff, is all or mostly European derived.

Heck, the new Camaro and Challenger aren't wholly American designs either. I'm getting to the point where my definition of an "American car" is a foreign car with a v8 mashed into it.

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Originally Posted by swift996 View Post
NO

No American car manufacturer would design something like the BRZ in philosophy. It would be a small coupe (think Ford Probe) with a 3.8L V6 with pushrods.
You mean a 6.0L v8 with OHV? They do, it's called the Corvette.

The American philosophy is that it's cheaper to start with more HP. That's how Ford has gotten away with selling a Mustang that is as powerful as a BMW M series but takes $10k in suspension to match the track handling. For such a niche car the Mustang still sells well after all these years. Obviously Europeans can't understand this(most will just laugh at the use of a SRA) because they have a lot of competition for such niche cars that America doesn't.

Honestly, I would like to see Ford, GM, Chrysler(*Blegh*) build a global sportscar. Will it happen? Not likely. Ever. So I'd say no because it won't happen.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ballsy View Post
If the BRZ fell through, that was number two on my list. Until I drove one.

I loved everything about it, until I tried to make a tight turn. The turning radius is abysmal, it's as big as a full-size truck's.

Ford didn't sweat the details.

That Is Because:

It is not, nor was it designed to be, a rear drive two passenger sports car for sports car enthusiasts. It is a FWD hatchback intended for a different market.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:07 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by BRZfan View Post
It is not, nor was it designed to be, a rear drive two passenger sports car for sports car enthusiasts. It is a FWD hatchback intended for a different market.
The MS3 has a four-foot shorter radius. The GTI has a five-foot shorter radius. Hell, the Buick Regal GS, with 255-section tires, has a three-foot shorter radius.

My Pontiac Montana, with about three feet more wheelbase, has a shorter radius - albeit not by much.

Ford didn't sweat the details. They designed it for 205-section or whatever tires, and when they bolted on the 235s, realized they needed steering stops.
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