Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Thatruth2001]

On my way home tonight I started thinking about the location of this topic within the forced induction thread. The unit shares basic FI theory with the movement of air, it is not a turbo that requires intercooling or an ESC that drives a belt?

If the topic was developed in the intake section of the forum, would people (like myself) that purchased an intake (Injen, Perrin, aFe etc.) view the product differently?

In essence should this be consider an intake, say a new air ram method on steroids?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Thatruth2001

On my way home tonight I started thinking about the location of this topic within the forced induction thread. The unit shares basic FI theory with the movement of air, it is not a turbo that requires intercooling or an ESC that drives a belt?

If the topic was developed in the intake section of the forum, would people (like myself) that purchased an intake (Injen, Perrin, aFe etc.) view the product differently?

In essence should this be consider an intake, say a new air ram method on steroids?

I see where you are going but ram air hardly ever can increase intake pressure over.1 psi.

This is forced induction albeit on a smaller scale. Still forced induction though.

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[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by fenton

I see where you are going but ram air hardly ever can increase intake pressure over.1 psi.

This is forced induction albeit on a smaller scale. Still forced induction though.

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I agree - I think a naysayer previously said 'this is not FI'. On the contrary this ESC seems very similar to centrifugal SC's (Vortech, Rotrex, etc.) and turbochargers. All centrifugal compressors, driven by either an electric motor, belt, or exhaust with wastegate. Boost characteristics are very much a function of their drive. Centrifugal compressors have an exponential-ish boost curve as compressor RPM increases. Turbochargers have some lag as it takes some time for the exhaust to spin the turbine up to a speed where significant boost is made. Centrifugal SC's don't have much low end at all because they are linearly driven by a belt and the compressor wheel doesn't produce significant boost until higher engine rpms. The ESC's compressor is driven by a nice torquey electric motor that's able to spin it up to operating speeds very quickly, providing lots of boost at much lower engine speeds compared to a centrifugal SC. It would be interesting to see the ESC paired up in series with something like a Vortech SC.

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by nonicname

I'm an industrial designer myself which is why I understand what things cost very well. R&D cost should be accounted as a "longer period before you get your investment is returned" not as an extra cost added to the sales price.
30%-35% profit margin is what things should cost in any market.

I saw this earlier today, but didn't want to respond until I had time to properly answer this position.

There is a reason Industrial Designers don't price products for a company...and your post is that reason. I have held the position of General Manager for an aerospace manufacturing company where it was my responsibility to set pricing and profits.

In pricing a product we look at cost factors of design and development and look at Return on Investment (ROI) as a period of time we expect to recover those costs. We also look at the company's direct Cost to Manufacture (CTM) that includes such items as direct labor, inventory, cost of implementing a quality management system and ERP systems. We need to understand the company's burden cost (fixed overhead costs that exist whether we produce one widget or one million widgets). We also need to include frictional and transaction costs.

But at the end of the day, we need to evaluate our product against our competitions. We also have to understand how the market values our product against said competition. If we have developed a product that holds significant value, then our product price will reflect that value and we will price our product at the top of the market. And because that product is valued, customers will gladly pay our asking price.

If a customer doesn't value your product, the only differentiator is price. In that type of market you would be lucky to get a 30% margin.

[Pizzman]

Originally Posted by fenton

Price is estimated right now around 1500 plus 120 for batteries. FYI I am not selling this kit I am just testing it out and stressing it to its limits

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Awesome job Fenton.

I am curious why your ETurbo doesn't run off of some sort of transformer/inverter, without the need for extra batteries. I am not an electrical engineer, but I have been into the R/C brushless for a long time helis, and cars). The technology has been around for years, its nice to see someone use it in new ways.

I am really excited about this product, and wish you best of luck getting it to market. It will sell. I have been thinking of doing it myself, but I do not have the experience with the complicated electronics involved.

Keep it up! I will get one for sure. Unichip and Ecutech tuners should definitely take note.

I agree, this is absolutely FI. No if ands or buts about it. It is in the proper area of the forums.

:happy0180:

[FT_Monk]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I agree - I think a naysayer previously said 'this is not FI'. On the contrary this ESC seems very similar to centrifugal SC's (Vortech, Rotrex, etc.) and turbochargers. All centrifugal compressors, driven by either an electric motor, belt, or exhaust with wastegate. Boost characteristics are very much a function of their drive. Centrifugal compressors have an exponential-ish boost curve as compressor RPM increases. Turbochargers have some lag as it takes some time for the exhaust to spin the turbine up to a speed where significant boost is made. Centrifugal SC's don't have much low end at all because they are linearly driven by a belt and the compressor wheel doesn't produce significant boost until higher engine rpms. The ESC's compressor is driven by a nice torquey electric motor that's able to spin it up to operating speeds very quickly, providing lots of boost at much lower engine speeds compared to a centrifugal SC. It would be interesting to see the ESC paired up in series with something like a Vortech SC.

This is a form of FI for sure: electric turbo charger. While the exhaust driven turbo charger is like a professional marathon runner, capable of much higher speed with stamina. This electric FI is like a amateur marathon runner. Out of the gate the electric turbo charger gets up to speed fast, sprints pass the pro runner only to be out of breath a few steps later, folds over and demands recharge! :happy0180:

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by FT_Monk

This is a form of FI for sure: electric turbo charger. While the exhaust driven turbo charger is like a professional marathon runner, capable of much higher speed with stamina. This electric FI is like a amateur marathon runner. Out of the gate the electric turbo charger gets up to speed fast, sprints pass the pro runner only to be out of breath a few steps later, folds over and demands recharge! :happy0180:

Take note of this post, read it again in 5-10 years, and try not to laugh at yourself .

[dnavas]

Originally Posted by Pizzman

I am curious why your ETurbo doesn't run off of some sort of transformer/inverter

I assume this is because you don't want to pull down the voltage on the entire car. Think of the two extra batts as cheap supercaps....

Plus, if you (god forbid) pop a cell on one of your boost batts, you're not getting a tow, you're just suffering the torque dip.

[Thatruth2001]

Originally Posted by FT_Monk

This is a form of FI for sure: electric turbo charger. While the exhaust driven turbo charger is like a professional marathon runner, capable of much higher speed with stamina. This electric FI is like a amateur marathon runner. Out of the gate the electric turbo charger gets up to speed fast, sprints pass the pro runner only to be out of breath a few steps later, folds over and demands recharge! :happy0180:

Think of this analogy when the dyno charts are posted.

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by nonicname

mmmmm should be $1,500 WITH batteries. seems steep for just a fan shell and an electric box. i know you are just the messenger but I'm just saying.

Compare and contrast to doing NA mods for comparable power, and you'll notice that you barely even have headers and an overpipe and you've already spent that much money. At that point you don't even have a tune!

This thing's a steal

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Ingen

Compare and contrast to doing NA mods for comparable power, and you'll notice that you barely even have headers and an overpipe and you've already spent that much money. At that point you don't even have a tune!

This thing's a steal

Indeed, especially when you compare the torque curves instead of just peak hp numbers - it looks like a curve from a 6 cylinder motor. Speaking of tune - I'm assuming the kit doesn't include any Ecutek or Brzedit license - somewhere between $199 and $600 depending on what you pick and if there are tunes available (Ecutek,Brzedit,OpenFlash,Unichip). Please correct me if I'm wrong Rob/Fenton/test crew.

[Bu-Tang]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Indeed, especially when you compare the torque curves instead of just peak hp numbers - it looks like a curve from a 6 cylinder motor. Speaking of tune - I'm assuming the kit doesn't include any Ecutek or Brzedit license - somewhere between $199 and $600 depending on what you pick and if there are tunes available (Ecutek,Brzedit,OpenFlash,Unichip). Please correct me if I'm wrong Rob/Fenton/test crew.

TBD

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[fenton]

Guess i know who added that tag.

This was more of a fact finding mission. Dyno testing new and old compressors(posting everything). Generally just sharing all our experiences with this form of FI.

[ATL BRZ]

Not knocking the product, always been a supporter of this kit and the testers Without the testers there would be no mass production of this kit. I guess I'm just impatient and I'm not really getting anything from the last few weeks of discussion, which I've found to be pretty redundant and boring especially with all the TBD's being thrown around...