Toyota 86 to get power boost with 2015 refresh

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by thill

Agreed. The twins are so light.. Maybe 260hp and 250ft lps of torque? That would still be a monster.

Yea, a minimum of 30 hp more if NA would be a good, but 45+ hp if its forced induction. It would absolutely awesome. Also maybe by 2015 there will be advancements in better and cheaper sound deadening so the car will be that much more livable.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Ok, not as good as the other guy made it sound, but still delicious none-the-less. Thank you for that. Seriously been waiting for this day, called it so long ago when they started with Scion. People didn't believe us, but there it is.

I finally get to say, "I told you so.".

Yup, there sales have been steadily dropping, but I heard it was going to be dealer choice whether or not they want to run the Scion brand after the half of the dealers get shutdown. After the FR-S sales taper off they are going a real money issue at scion and it won't be financially viable anymore, but at least if that happens they will probably bring the FR-S over to toyota. .

[Gaiakai]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

Yup, there sales have been steadily dropping, but I heard it was going to be dealer choice whether or not they want to run the Scion brand after the half of the dealers get shutdown. After the FR-S sales taper off they are going a real money issue at scion and it won't be financially viable anymore, but at least if that happens they will probably bring the FR-S over to toyota. .

And then we will finally have the 86 that we all want. This cannot happen soon enough...

[guysmyley]

seriously. take me to the future!

Originally Posted by Gaiakai

And then we will finally have the 86 that we all want. This cannot happen soon enough...

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Gaiakai

And then we will finally have the 86 that we all want. This cannot happen soon enough...

Originally Posted by guysmyley

seriously. take me to the future!

Its really just a guess, we know scion is going to close up shop soon, but whether or not the cars will make a move over brands is another issue, I have no idea the way they would think, but my logic tells me they would save the best selling cars that succeeded in the scion brand and toyotify them

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Ok, not as good as the other guy made it sound, but still delicious none-the-less. Thank you for that. Seriously been waiting for this day, called it so long ago when they started with Scion. People didn't believe us, but there it is.

I finally get to say, "I told you so.".

You called it 10 years ago when Scion started?

[Deslock]

Just found this thread due to being on the front page. Perhaps it could be combined with the BRZ doomed thread? As I mentioned in my post over there, the Drive article is sensationalistic.

Originally Posted by Skyllz

The current FA20 is a bulletproof motor(other than the DI issue solved with a tune).

Hope you're right, but at this point it's presumptuous to call the FA20 bulletproof.

Originally Posted by jcX4ever

Are you asking more under the curve? It is already better than others.

Even with the abnormalTorque dip at 4000rpm, the FA20 has fatter "LOW END TORQUE" compared to a comparable 2.0L engine (even the k20 of your DC5).

Here's an example:

Hey, that's my graph

Originally Posted by jcX4ever

Pros of 2.5L NA
--It will not likely to add any weight.
--NA response time is always better.
--Have the option to FI it later. I know people here are power hungry.

Why don't you think using a 2.5 is likely to result in a heavier vehicle?

This is obviously speculative, but based on Subaru's 2L vs 2.5L H4s (and weight differences between the Impreza, Forester, and Legacy), I'd expect a ~12-18% drop in fuel efficiency with a 2.5L engine in a 6MT FT86.

For purposes of comparison, my 6MT BRZ is rated for 22/30 MPG, but actually gets 25-28 MPG in town and 32-38 MPG highway.

[FT_Monk]

They should just install the V6 in the Camry or the IS 3.5 V6 into the twin, problem solved.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Why don't you think using a 2.5 is likely to result in a heavier vehicle?

Way way WAY back when, when Chevy took its big-block V8 from 427 to 454 cubic inches, the engineers were able to justify it as weight-savings (more material removed from the bores in the block => lighter weight)!
When I went from 2.4 L6 to a 3.1 L6 in my 240Z, weight gain was essentially zero.
If the engine can be bored/stroked to 2.5 liters without becoming physically bigger, and if there's enough margin in the existing drivetrain, there shouldn't be much if any weight gain.

This is obviously speculative, but based on Subaru's 2L vs 2.5L H4s (and weight differences between the Impreza, Forester, and Legacy), I'd expect a ~12-18% drop in fuel efficiency with a 2.5L engine in a 6MT FT86.

Increase displacement/torque/power by 25% would allow them to gear it, say, 12.5% taller and still have better off-the-line acceleration while at the same time minimizing the impact on fuel mileage.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Way way WAY back when, when Chevy took its big-block V8 from 427 to 454 cubic inches, the engineers were able to justify it as weight-savings (more material removed from the bores in the block => lighter weight)!

The 427 to 454 represented only a 6% increase in displacement (vs a 25% increase from a 2L to a 2.5L) and the FA20 has less material to bore out.

Originally Posted by ZDan

If the engine can be bored/stroked to 2.5 liters without becoming physically bigger, and if there's enough margin in the existing drivetrain, there shouldn't be much if any weight gain.

Yep, but that's a couple big ifs.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Increase displacement/torque/power by 25% would allow them to gear it, say, 12.5% taller and still have better off-the-line acceleration while at the same time minimizing the impact on fuel mileage.

Right, that's one of the reasons why I put in a range for my guestimate.

[g0lden]

so if 147kw is equal too 200hp, then 197kw should equal 258hp. They have to be thinking turbo/SC or V6 option...I can only imaging how much they will try and charge for that.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by g0lden

so if 147kw is equal too 200hp, then 197kw should equal 258hp. They have to be thinking turbo/SC or V6 option...I can only imaging how much they will try and charge for that.

That was my big concern. If I wanted to pay for an S2000 I would have bought an S2000. This was 10 grand cheaper (new for new). A power boost is definitely going to push it into a higher price bracket.

[jcX4ever]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Why don't you think using a 2.5 is likely to result in a heavier vehicle?

I don't know how thick the cylinder walls of the FA20 but if they can still bore it then you are shaving some metal thus reducing weight while increasing displacement.. this results in a lighter engine but more displacement.. Also, you can add more displacement in stroking .. this should not add weight.

Another, if they want to make a new block for the 2.5L then the weight difference should still be significantly lighter comparing to adding turbo, pipes, intercooler etc.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jcX4ever

I don't know how thick the cylinder walls of the FA20 but if they can still bore it then you are shaving some metal thus reducing weight while increasing displacement.. this results in a lighter engine but more displacement.. Also, you can add more displacement in stroking .. this should not add weight.

Another, if they want to make a new block for the 2.5L then the weight difference should still be significantly lighter comparing to adding turbo, pipes, intercooler etc.

Not much room to bore out. Maintaining square bore/stroke means adding another 6mm diameter to each cylinder (~93mm) or very nearly 1/4".

I guess it boils down to what you think a "noticeable" weight gain is, I typed out a long paragraph and ballparked 50+ lb. increase and realized that meant nothing to many people if it resulted in another 20 hp.

Edit: and that doesn't factor in the bloat as the model ages, heated seats, nicer plastics or satellite radio or knob gobblers or whatever they do to milk the everyman.