Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[sw20kosh]

[quote=mid_life_crisis;1045281]

Originally Posted by Robftss

That was running in series with his main blower. They seemed to work in a way that was synergistic. That is, together they were better than the sum of the individual blowers, if I recall correctly.

They worked additively. In the lower rpms The blower produced ~4 psi and the electrocharger also produced 4 psi totalling 8 psi which is what you see on yhe graph. In the later rpms the electrocharger is producing ~ 2 psi and the blower is producing 7-8 psi totalling about 9 psi total. It is very good results.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Of course the best setup would still be using tps/rpm/map controller but that ain't so bad for a DIY job.

Actually, even better, get the one with the encoder and use a cascaded close loop boost control with the engine rpm to control the shaft speed.
It doesn't sound out of reach of an electronics major doing their final year project.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

And would you ever do it again? Was it a win win situation or a headache of complexity and tuning?

I was thinking/dreaming of using it on the road course with my twin screw but not with a WOT switch as it would deplete too quickly but with a thumb switch on the steering wheel to give it some extra power when necessary like after a hairpin that drops revs to 3-4k or down a straight away. It would be an electrical NOS system lol.

Now the last thing to consider is weight. Has anyone determined the exact weight of the whole system?

Rob has stated a increase in 5 pounds which is the motor, motor controller and compressor housing.

The battery is scratch because the system removes the large heavy battery and replaces with 3 smaller batteries.

Thanks,

[nonicname]

Originally Posted by fenton

Measuring from a stand doesn't do AS much good because it rely's on shifting and launch.

I know what you are saying but a roll from 2nd or 1st even takes alot more of the variables.

Ill see what i can do i don't know anybody that is stock currently.

That makes a lot of sense. Im with u on that but would nice to do some rolls with a stock one.

[Wild Weasel]

[quote=sw20kosh;1045298]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

They worked additively. In the lower rpms The blower produced ~4 psi and the electrocharger also produced 4 psi totalling 8 psi which is what you see on yhe graph. In the later rpms the electrocharger is producing ~ 2 psi and the blower is producing 7-8 psi totalling about 9 psi total. It is very good results.

This is exactly right. The results were quite brilliant. Check out the charts on my website to see what he's referring to.

http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturboTest.aspx

The results are partially due to the very slightly smaller than "stock" pulley on my M45. I imagine that with the original pulley, the boost curve is a little more even but with the slightly smaller one, it makes a definite upward slope. When combined with the downward boost curve of the FTS blower, the combination made for a nice flat line between 8 and 9 psi. Booyah!

Now... with respect to tuning... I really didn't have to do squat. My car is already set up with a 2 BAR MAP sensor and a factory tune for boost, so my only concern was whether the fueling system would keep up or not, and it did just fine. My eyes did pop out a bit when I did the first run and saw over 10 psi, but after monitoring AFR readings and seeing I was doing ok, I didn't have any further concerns.

Now... that's not to say I won't throw a rod or blow a gasket or something... but if you read through the whole page about the testing, you'll soon get the impression that caution wasn't exactly my strong point.

Now... remember that mine is an engine built to handle around 150 hp stock and is a design more or less from the 80's, so repeatedly throwing upwards of 10 psi of boost at it right up to redline with no internal changes is probably a very bad idea. In your cases, with just the FTS, I don't expect any concerns about reliability.

[brichard0625]

the comparison videos dont work

[fenton]

Originally Posted by brichard0625

the comparison videos dont work

We removed them...sorry for those that didn't get to see them.

2nd gear roll from 3000 rpm, 5 car lengths by end of third.

3rd gear roll from 3000 rpm , ~ 8-10 car lengths by top of third.

I think that sounds about right but butang maybe you can comment as well.

He has SRT headback, fa20 intake and visconti stage 1.

[Bu-Tang]

Originally Posted by fenton

We removed them...sorry for those that didn't get to see them.

2nd gear roll from 3000 rpm, 5 car lengths by end of third.

3rd gear roll from 3000 rpm , ~ 8-10 car lengths by top of third.

I think that sounds about right but butang maybe you can comment as well.

He has SRT headback, fa20 intake and visconti stage 1.

Yep thats fairly accurate, We will get some videos again another time when we have the time to do so in a better setting.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Wild Weasel

Pfft. Been there... done that... :happy0180:



The only way the blower itself could ever reverse current would be if the airflow could turn the compressor wheel with some degree of force, and I just don't see this as being possible. As mentioned before though... the charge times just aren't an issue for even the most aggressive street driving.

something like this would be for track applications,

and reverse current? why? just have it go in the same direction to a cheap hypercapacitor.

the turbo would be spinning the electric turbine wheel MUCH faster than what the motor is capable of

the electric supercharger is only good for about 400 cfm where a gt3076r is capable of well over 700 cfm at over 20 psi

so what the real question is, can the electric supercharger handle the the extra rpms created by the turbo even running at 6-7 psi?

[brichard0625]

Originally Posted by fenton

We removed them...sorry for those that didn't get to see them.

2nd gear roll from 3000 rpm, 5 car lengths by end of third.

3rd gear roll from 3000 rpm , ~ 8-10 car lengths by top of third.

I think that sounds about right but butang maybe you can comment as well.

He has SRT headback, fa20 intake and visconti stage 1.

wow sounds like a big win too me..where do i purchase lol

[Bu-Tang]

Originally Posted by brichard0625

wow sounds like a big win too me..where do i purchase lol

It really was, but keep in mind, it was like that because Fenton had instant power, and a lot of it at low end, so he really didn't wait just has power and torque by flooring it, VS me NA really had no power until high RPM.

[SloS14]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

and reverse current? why? just have it go in the same direction to a cheap hypercapacitor.

the turbo would be spinning the electric turbine wheel MUCH faster than what the motor is capable of

I don't think this motor is going to spin easily. I don't see how the engine's pumping could spin the turbine faster than the motor. If that were the case, the motor powered turbine would be moot.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SloS14

I don't think this motor is going to spin easily. I don't see how the engine's pumping could spin the turbine faster than the motor. If that were the case, the motor powered turbine would be moot.

because the electric supercharger would be on after the turbo with the engine pushing the turbo the air has to flow past the electric supercharger before it gets into the engine.

it would be in this process

Exhaust -> turbo -> Intercooler -> electric supercharger -> engine

idle -> 4k rpms = electric supercharger
3k -> redline = turbo

4k -> redline = electric supercharger acting as a generator for the battery pack

off throttle -> electric supercharger to keep turbo spooled (anti-lag)

This is why i suggest a super capacitor set up in a series for the Electric supercharger:
1. fast recharge time
2. less engine load (charging super capacitors takes a LOT less effort and the alternator has to work less for the same charge = less parasitic loss)
3. can handle more charge and discharge cycles than a regular batter = more reliable and safer


super capacitors dont hold the same charge as a regular battery BUT charge 5 times faster...

@fenton
how many seconds off throttle do you need for 1 second on throttle? In theory with a larger alternator and super capacitors, you could run the system full time with some work....
EDIT: this would give it some credibility for track users to buy this, I do like this tech and a super capacitor pack equivalent to what a car batter costs...

[Robftss]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...ger-technology

It would have to be set-up like this.

A compressor wheel and a turbine wheel have completely different fluid dynamics.