FRS vs Camaro Handling

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Right about now. Just googled.

Technology from 10 year old F1 cars in your car of tomorrow!

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

Only other good handling is miata newest one, rx7 2nd gen and some pricey Porsche for me.

I drove 2016 Cam. Feels bulky and like a school bus with tons of hp. Not my cup of tea.

It's interesting you say that because the new alpha platform is very very light. The conception of "American heavy muscle/pony cars that cannot turn" is changing.

For the reference, V6 Camaro with 335hp only weighs 3339lbs!! which is even lighter than Japanese and German cars in that segment (STI, Evo, M2..etc)
Could that be a placebo effect?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Technology from 10 year old F1 cars in your car of tomorrow!

I am ashamed. Been living under a rock.

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by glamcem

It's interesting you say that because the new alpha platform is very very light. The conception of "American heavy muscle/pony cars that cannot turn" is changing.

For the reference, V6 Camaro with 335hp only weighs 3339lbs!! which is even lighter than Japanese and German cars in that segment (STI, Evo, M2..etc)
Could that be a placebo effect?

I feel they are still too heavy. Half because the car is bulky and half because the sitting position is higher up than that of our cars. Placebo? Maybe. The turn thing is half gone but the size makes me feel uncomfortable. Id rather buy a Tundra.

[FR-Sky]

Different car make for different scenario.
Sure, the camaro can beat the 86 on high speed track, but I very doubt on touge.
650hp is great, but 3900lbs is a nah.

[TommyW]

We love the 86 for the lack of weight. There will always be a faster heavier car. Then we have the Exige.......

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Well it's a >50 year old recipe.

Stating the obvious, but Chevy learned their lesson when they missed the boat the first time and now lets anybody use their powertrains which are awesome in terms of power density when you want 400+ hp.

If only GM had said yes to Shelby...

[~el~jefe~]

camaro LE1 package has 20" ghetto styled micro rubber wheels/tires. Only on a track would this beat a BRZ premium stock. Any road that actually is not mythical, the camaro would fly out on every slight turn. (not to mention bent rim + death when on a curve, like actual death.) I raced many people in the past, real road races. It is all about soft springs, or strong struts with huge travel distances, and large tires + weight of car when things get crazy.

I am all for these high performance muscle cars, but they set them up for lame tracks. This trend of creating track cars is becoming an irritating thing for me. No one I ever met buys a camaro to be a track only car. If you have that cash, you would get a porche, lotus, miata, etc. It is obvious someone who buys a camaro with the track package wants to go fast as well on regular roads. They will have some major issues, but will never publish them online. This is why the BRZ is neat with 17" tires and 2800 lbs. It can actually be raced in all conditions aside from rain/snow.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

camaro LE1 package has 20" ghetto styled micro rubber wheels/tires. Only on a track would this beat a BRZ premium stock. Any road that actually is not mythical, the camaro would fly out on every slight turn. I raced many people in the past, real road races. It is all about soft springs, or strong struts with huge travel distances, and large tires + weight of car when things get crazy.

I am all for these high performance muscle cars, but they set them up for lame tracks. This trend of creating track cars is becoming an irritating thing for me. No one I ever met buys a camaro to be a track only car. If you have that cash, you would get a porche, lotus, miata, etc. It is obvious someone who buys a camaro with the track package wants to go fast as well on regular roads. They will have some major issues, but will never publish them online. This is why the BRZ is neat with 17" tires and 2800 lbs. It can actually be raced in all conditions aside from rain/snow.

I am really sorry... but this is not true. The 1le cars do great at autox and other tight driving conditions. As well as making decent drivers for everyday use.

It is obvious how little this forum in general understands some of the domestic offerings.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

This tests the 1le v6.... the ss 1le was dropped against more worthy competitors (viper, audi r8 etc..) and ranked very high.

That is only one source, but the 1le is a very controllable drivers' car.

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I am really sorry... but this is not true. The 1le cars do great at autox and other tight driving conditions. As well as making decent drivers for everyday use.

It is obvious how little this forum in general understands some of the domestic offerings.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

This tests the 1le v6.... the ss 1le was dropped against more worthy competitors (viper, audi r8 etc..) and ranked very high.

That is only one source, but the 1le is a very controllable drivers' car.

No one who screws up and smashes into the BQE wall in NYC posts their fantastic handling of their hog car with micro rubber wheels. HOwever, I have witnessed many spinouts, when tires break free due to regular road bumps and pot holes, never to be resettled, and the weight takes over and smashes them, spinning them out of control.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Too twitchy from the short wheelbase, ugly appearance, and definitely way too expensive. Give me an LS swapped twin or 240, or just a regular corvette any day.

FD has 95.5" wheelbase and with ~550hp it doesn't feel too twitchy to me, if anything I'd like to get a much quicker steering rack for it.

Agree on the ND appearance, but LS horsepower in a car that's on the order of 1000 lb. lighter-weight than a Corvette, sounds like fun...

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

No one who screws up and smashes into the BQE wall in NYC posts their fantastic handling of their hog car with micro rubber wheels. HOwever, I have witnessed many spinouts, when tires break free due to regular road bumps and pot holes, never to be resettled, and the weight takes over and smashes them, spinning them out of control.

Great story. I would love to see what makes and models of cars you have witnessed being 1le camaros.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by glamcem

It's interesting you say that because the new alpha platform is very very light.

The conception of "American heavy muscle/pony cars that cannot turn" is changing.

For the reference, V6 Camaro with 335hp only weighs 3339lbs!! which is even lighter than Japanese and German cars in that segment (STI, Evo, M2..etc)
Could that be a placebo effect?

Actually these Camaros are not remotely lightweight. SS comes in at 3750+ lb. Historically (before they re-introduced the Camaro on a large sedan platform), V8 Camaros were generally in the 3400-3500 lb. weight range, so the current-gen is still heavy despite losing ~100 lb. vs. last-gen.

Car and driver reports 3467 lb. for a 2016 V6 Camaro, MT had one at 3461, so 3339 seems optimistic, maybe with no fuel?

For sure Japanese and German "sports" and "sporty" cars are almost all grossly overweight as well

SS 1LE is apparently a stellar-handling car, but I'd rather have the slower and less-stellar-handling-numbers FR-S/BRZ. Big heavy cars are just not as fun!

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

I feel they are still too heavy. Half because the car is bulky and half because the sitting position is higher up than that of our cars. Placebo? Maybe. The turn thing is half gone but the size makes me feel uncomfortable. Id rather buy a Tundra.

Well it "IS" heavier but heavier doesn't necessarily mean it will handle worse than the lighter car otherwise Viper, GT3, C7 Z06 wouldn't break lap and road holding records I agree with you though, having a higher seating position because of the higher car compared to BRZ, Miata or S2000 (owned all of them at some point btw) gives you a perception of bulky car, ..but like you said it's just a "feeling" since data clearly shows it's not a fact Since the handling is something that can be measured I simply trust the data more than anything

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

Different car make for different scenario.
Sure, the camaro can beat the 86 on high speed track, but I very doubt on touge.
650hp is great, but 3900lbs is a nah.

Nope not the case, it will beat in tight track, autox, figure eight and any performance metrics and condition you can think of .. feel of the car will be different of course and no one can argue with that, it's just a personal preference. With that said, I also had some concerns before tracking my 1LE (especially in turn in and tight corners) they were all gone.. GM did an exceptional job on these cars while competing with Ford (GT350)

Numbers don't lie, it laps the Streets of Willow (1:30 min course) in a whopping 5 seconds faster than the 86!! 1.5 seconds different in Figure 8 is YUUUGE!! like I said above feeling is not a fact
take a look
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

from a value proportion V6 Camaro is a very hard to beat since it's the cheapest of the alpha platform cars. If I were in the market for a V6 and I would prefer the lighter option (which is still a very good option imo) I wouldn't get the 1LE V6 since it doesn't have all the goodies of the SS 1LE (such as PTM , MRC, e-diff, LT1..etc) so it might not be worh the price tag. It uses the SS suspension and recaros. I would simply get a new V6 for about $19k (I saw them going as low as below $20k) and put a good set of coilovers,wheel/tires and seat, strip the car for weight savings and have the best bang for the buck. It wouldn't be hard to keep it below 3300lbs with some weight reduction

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

camaro LE1 package has 20" ghetto styled micro rubber wheels/tires. Only on a track would this beat a BRZ premium stock. Any road that actually is not mythical, the camaro would fly out on every slight turn. (not to mention bent rim + death when on a curve, like actual death.) I raced many people in the past, real road races. It is all about soft springs, or strong struts with huge travel distances, and large tires + weight of car when things get crazy.

I am all for these high performance muscle cars, but they set them up for lame tracks. This trend of creating track cars is becoming an irritating thing for me. No one I ever met buys a camaro to be a track only car. If you have that cash, you would get a porche, lotus, miata, etc. It is obvious someone who buys a camaro with the track package wants to go fast as well on regular roads. They will have some major issues, but will never publish them online. This is why the BRZ is neat with 17" tires and 2800 lbs. It can actually be raced in all conditions aside from rain/snow.

Well I bought my 1LE as my track only car (and maybe a few miles on street driving every once in a while and I know many others in the same situation. The demand on these 1LEs is so big it took me a couple months to find one and at a decent price
speaking of weight, same can be said for BRZ or S2000 also, they still weigh a ton more than Lotus Elise and/or ND Miata. So there is no end to it. At the end of the way, it will "handle" better no matter how we look at it or feel.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

What issues did you have?

endlinks were not torqued enough and it gave me some clunks after the first event, torqued it.

And one of the wiring harnesses is sitting close to A/C belt and causing high RPM hesitation. Zip tied that other than that so far so good (knock on wood)