Frs vs s2000

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Frost

UPDATE:

So after much advice from this thread, I test drove an AP2 S2000 and a 2015 BRZ and here are my thoughts:

S2000 Pros:
1- That engine is a marvel. It sings and it has a very smooth and while not quite linear, it a has very satisfying increase in ramp after you get past 5k RPM to 8k.
2- Shifter was fan-friggin tastic. SUCH SHORT THROWS. Definitely did not miss a shift due to the transmission.
3- VERY SNUG seating - I'm not fat fat but it was snug and held me in place. Could be a con for others.

S2000 Cons:
1- I'm only 5'10" and had a hard time finding a proper seating position? No tilt wheel meant my knees and hands were hitting each other if turning wheel with hand at 5 to 7 o'clock positions. I need to reinvestigate this.
2- Rag top, $$$ to replace - mine had a minor rip that I can only see exponentially getting worse.


BRZ Pros:
1- Seating was much easier to adjust overall than S2K
2- MUCH more cargo space
3- Better steering feel than S2K

BRZ Cons:
1- Odd high engagement point for clutch (ja ja ja - I know about this but was still oddly surprised)
2- Engine has a sweet spot but then falls off either side. I've driven lower power vehicles (my old MR2) which didn't feel as bad. Once I got about 4.5k RPMs, it felt good then after 6.5k RPMs felt like it wasn't doing much. My butt dyno tells me the best was around 6 to 6.5k RPMs.

Right now in my autopsy of the event - I need to reinvestigate the S2000 seating position again before I can truly determine which to buy. The S2000 brought more smiles to my face but was tarnished with having the top up (it was freezing today) and the issue with the seating.

Will let you guys know.

Frost

Seating position isn't so bad. I'm also 5'10, maybe 5'11. Knees are definitely close to the steering wheel but don't touch. The steering wheel feels like it's in a good spot to me, honestly. I liked the telescoping wheel on the FR-S but didn't think it really had much adjustment room. I felt it was best all the way out and all the way down... or maybe just slightly above all the way down. Probably would only set it once and never touch it again. There definitely is more room overall though. I kinda wish the throttle pedal on the S2000 was a little bigger/extended further down to make heal/toe easier for taller people.

Def give it a try topless. The S2000 just comes alive with the top down. I hate driving it with the top up due to the visibility difference. About the steering feel, TBH, I didn't really notice it to the degree people say. The FRS/BRZ did feel a little more natural but the S2000's steering speed/turn-in response still felt sharper to me, even on the AP2. Both cars have pros and cons, for sure. I'd like to have both. ;( lol

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Seating position isn't so bad. I'm also 5'10, maybe 5'11. Knees are definitely close to the steering wheel but don't touch. The steering wheel feels like it's in a good spot to me, honestly. I liked the telescoping wheel on the FR-S but didn't think it really had much adjustment room. I felt it was best all the way out and all the way down... or maybe just slightly above all the way down. Probably would only set it once and never touch it again. There definitely is more room overall though. I kinda wish the throttle pedal on the S2000 was a little bigger/extended further down to make heal/toe easier for taller people.

Def give it a try topless. The S2000 just comes alive with the top down. I hate driving it with the top up due to the visibility difference. About the steering feel, TBH, I didn't really notice it to the degree people say. The FRS/BRZ did feel a little more natural but the S2000's steering speed/turn-in response still felt sharper to me, even on the AP2. Both cars have pros and cons, for sure. I'd like to have both. ;( lol

The thing I found with the S2000 steering feel is that it was kinda not so organic compared to the rest of the car: chassis, gear shifter, etc. It felt... I dunno, stiff for the sake of being stiff? Not quite that but like almost overly stiffer when I don't think it should be? Keep in mind I come from non-power steering cars. The BRZ on the other hand was more relatable to non-power steering if that makes any sense.

That being said, I don't think the one thing the BRZ has an advantage over the S2000 is enough to make me buy the BRZ instead of S2000. I'm going to go back to the S2000 and see what I was doing wrong with the seating. I have a strong feeling that since I got in with the top up, I never actually acquired a proper seating position to begin with. That car is definitely one to be driven with the top down for sure!

[Who8myrice]

Hello I would like to give my 2cent.
I was hunting for used s2k for while before I got frs.
I must have test drove 20 s2k before I gave up.
If car is in good shape and low miles, price was too much for over 10year car.
When the price was low, car was beat to hell.
I love honda's tran but I also hate it when 2n3 gear goes bad.
Here is another thing.
If you are paying cash for s2k I think that is best way to buy them.
You can have over 700 credit but financing s2k will suck.
Interest will be higher due to year.
So at end I bought frs. New car new warrantee.
Low rate, and I don't need to worry about issue in the car.
Well that was my deciding factor

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Who8myrice

Hello I would like to give my 2cent.
I was hunting for used s2k for while before I got frs.
I must have test drove 20 s2k before I gave up.
If car is in good shape and low miles, price was too much for over 10year car.
When the price was low, car was beat to hell.
I love honda's tran but I also hate it when 2n3 gear goes bad.
Here is another thing.
If you are paying cash for s2k I think that is best way to buy them.
You can have over 700 credit but financing s2k will suck.
Interest will be higher due to year.
So at end I bought frs. New car new warrantee.
Low rate, and I don't need to worry about issue in the car.
Well that was my deciding factor

There's usually not much in terms of "financing" a used car other than conventional loans or line of credit. There are some guys that will offer car loans but the rates are never as good as dealers for new cars. Remember, dealers want to push new cars so they will always take a hit on loans to push sales. So I always assume used car = cash on delivery.

The thing with S2k's and my search for them alongside the BRZ for the last 18 months is that there is no real logic to the pricing due to "market evaluation". According to the MoT here, they should be worth roughly 11-16k for a used AP2 which is DEFINITELY not what they are selling for. Hard to justify.

Warranty is nice, I hear you - until you mod. Both have pro's and cons.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Frost

According to the MoT here, they should be worth roughly 11-16k for a used AP2 which is DEFINITELY not what they are selling for. Hard to justify.

That's pretty much what I usually see them for and what I bought mine for.

[Andrew025]

That's one of the reasons that pushed me to the BRZ.
I'd be paying damn near the same price I paid for my BRZ for an s2k in the condition I want.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

That's pretty much what I usually see them for and what I bought mine for.

That's because #Amurica.

Up here, the S2k MSRP was mid $40k CAD.

You guys had it for mid $30k if I am not mistaken. A whopping $10k difference at least. I heard in 2008 when the markets crashed Honda lowered the prices it but it was already too late.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Frost

That's because #Amurica.

Up here, the S2k MSRP was mid $40k CAD.

You guys had it for mid $30k if I am not mistaken. A whopping $10k difference at least. I heard in 2008 when the markets crashed Honda lowered the prices it but it was already too late.

'mercuhhh!!

lol

[Who8myrice]

Well I agree with most of you. S2k market itself pushed me away from buying one. I want to get one in future but it would be cash deal only.
But I am not getting younger, not sure if I want to get s2k as I am getting to 30year old.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Who8myrice

Well I agree with most of you. S2k market itself pushed me away from buying one. I want to get one in future but it would be cash deal only.
But I am not getting younger, not sure if I want to get s2k as I am getting to 30year old.

I'm 33. Wtf you talking about?

[Who8myrice]

well it's personal reason. I am not a big fan of convert and when I drove my friends s2k I felt like everybody was starring at me. Don't know hard to explain...

[Frost]

I hear you - I don't plan on driving near people for most part so I don't care as much.

[Frost]

Well, it's official - I've shaken hands and put down a deposit on an AP2 after having mulled it over for a week against the BRZ and a Lotus Elise.

Will post photos when it's ready.

Thanks @Dezoris @CSG Mike @Sideways&Smiling for all the input.

Dezoris' videos especially put me over the top and made me stay in the used car market - I have yet to buy a new car in my 15+ years of driving.

Sideways: Is your name Sideways at the S2ki forums?

Frost

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Frost

Well, it's official - I've shaken hands and put down a deposit on an AP2 after having mulled it over for a week against the BRZ and a Lotus Elise.

Will post photos when it's ready.

Thanks @Dezoris @CSG Mike @Sideways&Smiling for all the input.

Dezoris' videos especially put me over the top and made me stay in the used car market - I have yet to buy a new car in my 15+ years of driving.

Sideways: Is your name Sideways at the S2ki forums?

Frost

Thats not Phil