Advanced driving.

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by paulca

Good:

Bad:

I mean the very first thing he does is drop the handbrake. FAILED. The last thing you do is drop the handbrake before moving off.


Actually if you spend a good 20 minutes browsing YouTube with the search "How to change gear" you will find quite quickly that the videos from the USA are the only ones where people do things differently and arguably wrong. In fairness they are usually done by "some bloke" 'and stuff' as opposed to a real driving instructor. I have found videos from driving instructors from the UK, Ireland, Europe, Austrailia and New Zealand and they all teach the same basic method to learners. Then you find the US videos and it's all stuff that would get you failed in the other mentioned countries. No problem in the US as nobody will fail for doing these things as there is no test. If the US did decide to enforce a test to be able to drive "stick" I don't doubt they would look at what other countries are doing and you'd end up having to learn just like we do.

Does it not sound like maybe as the USA don't tend to drive manual that you might not know what you are doing? etc etc etc

I won't get into the argument of whether or not it's a good idea to rev-match on the street, but if you're going to use a video as an example of how US drivers do things incorrectly in a manual transmission car, you might want to use a video from the US. The one you linked is from Belgium, which last I checked, was in Europe. The fact that it's an Opel should have been a clue.

[Corradooo]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

This thread is ridiculous.

Go buy an automatic corolla or something.

Originally Posted by sklimo

Oh fuck I rev match all the time I bet I totaled her.

My automatic rev matches. It must be a defect. Going back to the dealer today.

[n2oinferno]

Thread too long didn't read rest.

So here's the question I have..

OP, can you heel-toe properly? Because when I do it now it's like second nature, and it takes no longer than it would for me to shift alone without rev matching. I know you said you have done it before.. but do you suck at it?

Somehow I have a feeling you're dragging this process way out and just doing it wrong.

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Thread too long didn't read rest.

So here's the question I have..

OP, can you heel-toe properly? Because when I do it now it's like second nature, and it takes no longer than it would for me to shift alone without rev matching. I know you said you have done it before.. but do you suck at it?

Somehow I have a feeling you're dragging this process way out and just doing it wrong.

Even though I drive an automatic now, I drove heel-toe for so long, that I still cover brake and gas with one foot when braking hard.


Started driving stick in 1984.


FWIW to the OP, you mostly keep saying the same thing, but don't focus on what you REALLY mean - perhaps I can sum up for you in one sentence since you seem resistant.


"New drivers should be taught basic techniques before they are taught additional techniques to improve their ability to control a vehicle without distraction."




/thread

[MokSpeed]

TNT knows drama.

[Shagaliscious]

This sums my feelings up perfectly towards the OP.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0"]Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon)[Forum Weapon][How To Troll][Ignorance Is Bliss] - YouTube[/ame]

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by paulca

I think it is because you don't understand how to change gear without rev matching that you don't really gather how little clutch slip and clutch load is required to shift smoothly without rev matching.

OK, real world situation here:

I am driving my Subaru Outback, in the mountains. I am in 5th gear going 60mph in a 55mph zone (approximate engine speed is about 2800 rpm), and there is a substantial hill coming up where the speed limit increases to 65mph, so I want to accelerate while climbing this hill, at altitude, in my 175hp (at sea level) Outback. This requires 3rd gear. At this speed (60mph), in 3rd gear, the engine speed should be about 5000 rpm. Are you saying that I should clutch in, shift to 3rd, and then release the clutch, letting the engine speed drag from ~2500rpm up to 5000? If so, how do you justify calling this a small amount of clutch slip?

(Also, that video you called "good" never really addressed a situation where you are downshifting because you need more power to pass, and the only downshifts shown in the video were after the car had been dramatically slowed)

[litemup]

Maybe it's because I'm old but pretty much everything described here as "advanced driving" is just plain defensive driving.

Nothing advanced about it.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

"New drivers should be taught basic techniques before they are taught additional techniques to improve their ability to control a vehicle without distraction."

Isn't that what I said?

You forgot the part where I stated that rev matching isn't required to drive a car 'properly', however the term 'properly' seems to cause controversy.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Are you saying that I should clutch in, shift to 3rd, and then release the clutch, letting the engine speed drag from ~2500rpm up to 5000? If so, how do you justify calling this a small amount of clutch slip?

Well, you would begin applying accelerator with/during the clutch slip. You "could" call that rev matching. But what you wouldn't need to do is hold the clutch fully down while you blip the throttle, raise the revs to 5,000 and then just release the clutch suddenly in one go. It's more of a balanced transition.

Clutch down, select 3rd, apply accelerator as you lift the clutch slowly. If you call that rev matching that's fine, but it wouldn't be called that to a learner. The instructor would simply advise adding throttle sooner.

[atledreier]

Speaking of what the manual says. The manual for my car explain what the three weird pads in the driver's footwell are. Literally. So, the manual seems to be made for the absolute novice, and in that setting rev-matching would be a daunting concept, I agree. For those who have any significant amount of basic training, the act of shifting is second nature and require a tiny proportion of your brain capacity. If shifting properly is keeping you from situational awareness then please sir, step out of the vehicle and revert to yelling at kids to get off your lawn.

If your brain is overloaded in regular traffic, I suggest you do some mental exercise and train in a simulator. My kids are out there.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by atledreier

Speaking of what the manual says. The manual for my car explain what the three weird pads in the driver's footwell are. Literally. So, the manual seems to be made for the absolute novice, and in that setting rev-matching would be a daunting concept, I agree. For those who have any significant amount of basic training, the act of shifting is second nature and require a tiny proportion of your brain capacity. If shifting properly is keeping you from situational awareness then please sir, step out of the vehicle and revert to yelling at kids to get off your lawn.

If your brain is overloaded in regular traffic, I suggest you do some mental exercise and train in a simulator. My kids are out there.

Personally when I went for advanced training it was the first thing, asides speeding that was highlighted to me about my driving. "Playing around with the gears when braking". I was told to just leave them alone, do the braking first, then when needed select the gear I need and go.

This was a police driving instructor that was observing me.

The trouble is, in the GT86 I would be cruising along a road at 60mph (the limit) in 6th and approaching a 30mph zone on approach to a roundabout. In "normal" mode I would just carry the braking down through the 30mph like everyone else, probably entering the 30 at 50mph but ending up near stopped at the roundabout. I would be down shifting, probably 6th to 4th or 6th to 3rd on approach. Slowing down below 30mph in 6th threatens labouring the engine. Below 20mph and it will start to under-rev and you'll need to clutch it.

His recommendation was firstly to get the car down to 30mph at the 30mph sign, to not do so is speeding, obviously. Even though nobody else does this. Leave the gears alone as I don't need to accelerate. Then approach slowly watching the roundabout closely for a gap to slip into. Once that gap is identified, select the gear appropriate for the speed I wish to merge at and go.

Surprisingly this actually works, even though it seems wrong. As you approach with your full concentration is on the traffic flow, both hands on the wheel, you aren't braking any more, just trundling along at 20-30mph from quite far back. You spot your merge gap, which is a lot smaller than if you had stopped and needed to accelerate into it. Once you spot the gap, select the gear you need for the speed you have and seamless merge into it. It maintains a consistent flow, saves fuel and time while at the same time being being safer as you have both hands on the wheel more often and aren't fannying around with the gears.

How to deal with the 6th gear labouring. Well I took their systematic approach to hazards and the fact they consider a change in speed limit a hazard as you need to alter your speed for it. So I down shift to 5th at the 30mph sign. You can carry 5th all the way down to 10mph without underreving (much).

I don't drive like this all the time, but when it comes to taking driving advice, I would prefer to take it from a qualified police driving instructor than some random American's on a forum. Also, don't knock it till you try it, most people who take their training courses or join the local IAM clubs protest about some of their techniques initially but usually end up with it all falling into place and feel better drivers for it. It's not just gear changes but a wide range of techniques. A lot of which as a good sensible, defensive driver you will already have, but I garuantee you will pick up many more tips and tricks to improves your driving and usually increase your fuel economy and reduce your journey times.

Also I will concede that on the topic of learners that 99% of learners here are learning to drive for the first time in a manual. ie. They don't learn in an auto and then transition to manual later. So they are learning everything all at once.

I was luckier when I first took driving lessons I had been driving a motorbike for 9 years and been on the road on a pedal bike for decades before that, so I knew traffic and road law pretty well. I feel sorry for people with no clue about any of that trying to learn it all while learning clutch control and gear changes.

[paulca]

Oh, one important point. Passing the advanced test gets you a certificate accepted by a lot of insurance companies who will give you a 10-20% discount on your insurance!