Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Or do we? By replacing the springs we now no longer know how many would ultimately fail if the recall didn't happen. It is possible that the longer they were used metal fatigue would have come into play, or cracks would develop along the "bad parts".

The springs that were going to break already did long before the recall was issued. This is part of my disappointment in the corporate decision. The failure data clearly supported the already widely understood engineering principles on the subject.

Basically, whatever was going to break did so within a thousand miles or two. It was an idiotic decision from the very beginning.

[Payload]

Gm. I'm sorry you guys have had that problem.. I have a 2013 scion frs that I've been driving for almost 7 straight years by July of 2020, I have put over 120,500 miles on my stock FA20 engine, and I haven't had any of those problems.. So far so good, this "valve spring recall defect" is definitely not happening to all 2013 models. I also tuned the engine with an openflash tablet getting over 260hp according to a fuel injector calculator website from where I had bought my "dw 300c" fuel pump.. I had to swap out the old oem pump, that fuel pump needed to be replaced around 92,000 miles, after driving it for like 5 straight years the oem pump began to fatigue.. Oem fuel pumps are expensive from the dealer, it can cost over $500.00.. I only payed approximately $190.00 for this aftermarket deep fuel pump from the www.ft86speedfactory.com website and the spec ratings of this fuel pump product are much higher in flow rate output, the flow rate of this aftermarket pump can supply turbocharged and super charged compressors.. Mind you my car is still running naturally aspirated. No force induction necessary for my alleged horse power gains..

[tomm.brz]

260hp...calculated from a fuel calculator.. yes, no.

If I put AFR 9 in a NA FR-S what does it give, 350hp?
Neither a dyno number is reliable and you trust a website calculator?

[Payload]

I meant swap out the old fuel pump. Not "pen" that was a typo error..

[Payload]

As for your question with a fuel pump calculator, there's a list of other things that go into this when sizing your fuel pump and knowing about static fuel injector flow rate. I'm sure their values are rather conservative.. . It's not that simple, any one can just plug in random numbers to arrive at a calculated solution, you have to be involved and familar with tunning the car's ecu to get a proper estimate..

[The Red One]

Originally Posted by Payload

I meant swap out the old fuel pump. Not "pen" that was a typo error..

Me thinks all of your posts are typo error...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

260hp...calculated from a fuel calculator.. yes, no.

If I put AFR 9 in a NA FR-S what does it give, 350hp?
Neither a dyno number is reliable and you trust a website calculator?

You need to go read the rest of his stuff!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

...Basically, whatever was going to break did so within a thousand miles or two. It was an idiotic decision from the very beginning.

I'm no engineer and I haven't read the documents you refer to, but I just can't wrap my head around any business process where this is a plausible decision. Recall 300,000 cars that were all well past the point where they would have failed, incurring a cost of between $200M and $300M for no purpose? (I saw the bill for my repair and it was around $1,500 at retail price)

I'm not saying your wrong, but if you are right then the lawsuit shouldn't be for the ones that failed, it should be from the stockholders of Subaru and Toyota.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by Payload

As for your question with a fuel pump calculator, there's a list of other things that go into this when sizing your fuel pump and knowing about static fuel injector flow rate. I'm sure their values are rather conservative.. . It's not that simple, any one can just plug in random numbers to arrive at a calculated solution, you have to be involved and familar with tunning the car's ecu to get a proper estimate..

Ah ok, sorry.... they are conservative!
then why not estimate your NA car at 295hp...maybe little more?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm no engineer and I haven't read the documents you refer to, but I just can't wrap my head around any business process where this is a plausible decision. Recall 300,000 cars that were all well past the point where they would have failed, incurring a cost of between $200M and $300M for no purpose? (I saw the bill for my repair and it was around $1,500 at retail price)

I'm not saying your wrong, but if you are right then the lawsuit shouldn't be for the ones that failed, it should be from the stockholders of Subaru and Toyota.

Yup. Exactly. It's an epic tragedy born out of a single fear-based {add] and possibly with pressure from the nhtsa [/add] business decision

[N234]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yup. Exactly. It's an epic tragedy born out of a single fear-based business decision.

I thought they were under pressure from NHTSA...

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[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by N234

I thought they were under pressure from NHTSA...

Either way,

[Clipdat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

The springs that were going to break already did long before the recall was issued. This is part of my disappointment in the corporate decision. The failure data clearly supported the already widely understood engineering principles on the subject.

Basically, whatever was going to break did so within a thousand miles or two. It was an idiotic decision from the very beginning.

Yay, someone who gets it.

My theory is that because they got in so much hot water because of the unintended acceleration stuff years back, that as soon as the Toyota lawyers saw "May cause the vehicle to stall [and lose control]", they shit the bed and screamed RECALL, RECALL, RECALL!

However, it should have been a voluntary recall in all 50 states. Ticking the box for "emissions related" (which makes it mandatory if you want to actually drive it on the road) and fucking over everyone in CA was a big slap in the face. In no way is it in any way an "emissions related" recall. That part is 110% bullshit and only serves to highlight the bureaucracy and horseshit that takes place in CA perpetuated by CARB.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

However, it should have been a voluntary recall in all 50 states. Ticking the box for "emissions related" (which makes it mandatory if you want to actually drive it on the road) and fucking over everyone in CA was a big slap in the face. In no way is it in any way an "emissions related" recall. That part is 110% bullshit and only serves to highlight the bureaucracy and horseshit that takes place in CA perpetuated by CARB.

In Subaru and Toyota's defense they were probably giving their mechanics the benefit of the doubt assuming they were capable of doing the job correctly in the first place.

Again, it isn't the recall itself that caused the failure, it was sloppy work on the part of a few mechanics. Had the work been done properly we wouldn't have anything to talk about, it would just be a footnote and we would all be telling folks that were looking at buying a used 2013 "make sure the recall for the valve spring is done on the car".