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Old 01-27-2013, 08:26 PM   #1
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Dyno Compilation - dyno testing results and recommendations

Before we get started, let me preface this with there is going to be a lot of dyno data tossed out here from our own dyno files. We have tested our FRS at various points over 10,000 miles, and we have hundres of FRS/BRZ dyno runfiles. The post will be lengthy.

In addition, we intend for this post to help inform the community on what we feel are correct dyno test procedures, and how improper testing can lead to erroneous results.

In accordance with other vendors on this site, we will be posting results in dynojet SAE correction instead of our typical STD correction. The differences are minor, and I will give a short oversimplified explanation for what each correction factor actually does. There are more weather factors taken into account but the point can be conveyed using just temperature.
  • STD - correction, attemps to add or subtract power with the break even point around 60*F
  • SAE - correction, attemps to add or subtract power with the break even point around 77*F
  • Uncorrected - meaning no corrections are applied. This is what the car put down to the tire, in the weather conditions present when the dyno pull was performed.

What that means is if your dyno conditions are above 60*F with STD correction the dyno sheet will reflect additional power until it meets its calculated power level for 60*F. Conversely if your dyno conditions are below 60*F with STD correction the dyno sheet will reflect reduced power until it meets its calculated power level for 60*F.

The same holds true for SAE but with a higher temperature correction factor as mentioned above.

If the temperature is below 60*F your dyno pull will generally reflect higher horsepower when shown in Uncorrected VS STD and SAE corrections.

This is why you will see variances in power output between STD, SAE, and uncorrected. The conditions are important when viewing uncorrected dyno pulls to ensure the operator's and companies aren't trying to falsify the data to sell the product.

Since 99% of the dynojet dyno's posted here have been in SAE we are reposting ours in SAE and it will hopefully provide everyone here with valid concrete apples to apples data comparisons.

For starters, lets go over what we recommend for dyno testing to give the most consistent results for this platform.
  • We recommend to dynoing manual FRS / BRZ in 5th gear
  • We recommend to always reset the ECU for a baseline, then install mods / parts, and reset the ECU for a valid comparison.
  • We recommend allowing 1 minute for the vehicle to idle after an ECU reset

Let me also give a little information about our dyno. We have Dynojet's state of the art 424xLC2 with linx system. The Dyno is an In-ground 4WD dyno, with Dual eddy current brakes, that can simulate up to 2,000 ft-lbs of torque (load) to each roller. The dyno is extremely accurate, and we have measured down to 0.17 hp.

Please also note, that I have included the run conditions in the bottom right hand side of every dyno sheet posted. It includes run information, weather conditions, correction factors and notations about the pulls.

Here are examples of a 4th gear pull vs a 5th gear pull on the two platforms:

Runfile 7 - 4th gear FRS
Runfile 10 - 5th gear FRS


Runfile 2 - 4th gear BRZ
Runfile 5 - 5th gear BRZ


We can see a noticeable power difference between gearing on both platforms. This is NOT typical. Nearly all platforms tested on Dynojet are within 1% power irregardless of gear the pull was performed.

What this means, is the OEM flash is allowing the vehicle to make more power in 5th, vs 4th.

It is important when comparing dynojet pulls between each other that the gear it was tested in be stated, and if the "before" was done in 4th and the "after" was done in 5th, the results would not be accurate. In fact they would be falsified and inaccurate. Again possibly to sell a product, or simply out of ignorance.


Next lets move onto resetting the OEM ecu and why it is important:

Runfile 29 - before ECU reset FRS
Runfile 30 - after ECU reset FRS


Runfile 05 - before ECU reset BRZ
Runfile 10 - after ECU reset BRZ


Again, we see a noticeable increase in power after resetting the OEM ecu. As previously stated, this information could be used to falsify claims and or data, willfully or out of ignorance. This is why we recommend resetting the ecu and doing 3 dyno pulls before installation of new parts, Then resetting the ecu and doing 3 dyno pulls after the new parts are installed, for a valid comparison of the actual gains.

Resetting the ECU is as simple as disconnecting the negative battery terminal, and waiting for 5 minutes.


Moving onto why the car needs to idle for a minute after an ECU reset:

Runfile 39 - Cams locked at 0 FRS
Runfile 46 - Normal VVT operation FRS


Here we have an artifact we noticed from our extensive dyno testing. After an ECU reset, or after an ECU reflash, the ECU runs a self diagnostic check, during this time the intake and exhaust cams are locked at 0, and the idle rpm is around 1000. If you try to accelerate the vehicle during this time the cams will stay locked at 0, irregardless of what the cam targets are and you wind up with an abnormally low dyno pull.

After the self diagnosis has completed the Idle will kick up slightly similar to when an A/C compressor turns off and the engine will idle back down to the OE target around 600-650 rpm. The cams are now unlocked and you can now perform a dyno pull.


Next we move onto the OEM flash vs the EcuTek base flash:

First lets explain what the Ignition Advance Multiplier (IAM) is and what it does.

In a simple nutshell, it takes your desired ignition timing and adds or subtracts timing based on the modifier.

1.0 = 100% timing
0.0 - 0.99 = less than 100% timing.

This value is learned over time, and increases when no detonation is detected, and decreases when detonation is detected. It increases by default much slower than it decreases.

Here we have our OEM FRS after ECU reset, with an EcuTek base rom flash, with the Ignition Advance Multiplier (IAM) set to the default 0.7

Runfile 30 - OEM flash - FRS
Runfile 34 - EcuTek base IAM 0.7 - FRS



Here we have the EcuTek base map with IAM set to 0.7 and 3 additional back to back dyno pulls. Showing the ECU learning and adding in timing after the reflash.

Runfile 34 - EcuTek base IAM 0.7 - FRS
Runfile 35-37 EcuTek base IAM 0.7 Learned timing - FRS



Here we can see the differences in the OEM flash and EcuTek flash strategy:

Runfile 30 - OEM Flash - FRS
Runfile 46 - EcuTek flash IAM 1.0 - FRS


We can clearly see that the EcuTek ignition strategy is different than the OEM ignition strategy.


Here we show the EcuTek flash with IAM set to 0.7 vs 1.0:

Runfile 34 EcuTek flash IAM 0.7 - FRS
Runfile 46 EcuTek flash IAM 1.0 - FRS



Next we show the effects of resetting an ECU with an EcuTek reflash:

Runfile 1 - Visconti before reset - FRS
Runfile 4 - Visconti after reset - FRS


I spoke with the customer about this case, and determined the power loss can be attributed to the Long drive from LA to TX. The customer had to stop at a place that only had 92 octane. It is entirely possible the difference in power is largely due to knock the ecu was seeing from the poor quality gasoline. Resetting the ecu clears the learned values out and that is why it picked up power.

Having said that, we have reset the ecu several times on the dyno with the EcuTek flash and IAM set to 1.0, with no appreciable difference in power. That means any drop in power from a EcuTek flash is learned by the ecu. Driving habits, fuel quality, weather conditions all affect when an ecu see's knock and as a result will alter the tune.


Now we compare a custom tune vs an "off the shelf" tune:


Runfile 04 - Visconti after ecu reset - FRS
Runfile 24 - Our custom tune - FRS


Here we have a Visconti tune against the custom tune we provided to the customer.

The benefits are we can set the ideal cam phasing, ignition timing, and fuel targets for the modifications as they are installed on the vehicle. As every vehicle varies it is nearly impossible to load the ideal tune without any dyno testing.

We prefer to use our Dyno for all our power testing instead of street tuning and logging maf g/s or voltage. We still spend some time tuning on the street as you can only simulate so much of real world conditions on the dyno. For that reason we chose to build our facility off a 1.5 mile straight 70mph speed limit road.


Now lets do some Tuning and modification comparisons, following the test procedures we recommend.

Here we have the Base EcuTek flash with IAM set to 0.7, The Base EcuTek flash with the IAM set to 1.0, and our Tuned EcuTek flash on a stock FRS:

Runfile 34 - EcuTek IAM 0.7 - FRS
Runfile 46 - EcuTek IAM 1.0 - FRS
Runfile 110 - Our custom stock tune - FRS



Next up we have our tuned stock FRS, against a Tuned FRS with a nameless catted overpipe, midpipe with resonator, and SRT axle back.

Runfile 24 - Our custom tune with the exhaust mods listed - FRS
Runfile 110 - Our custom tune with a stock FRS


You can see where the exhaust helped, and where the biggest gains came from, and where the exhaust did not perform well.


Next we show a Perrin drop in filter against an OEM paper filter on a customers BRZ:

Runfile 09 - OEM filer - BRZ
Runfile 12 - Perrin drop in - BRZ




In addition, we are extending a free offer to any of the Performance Companies who currently have bolt-on performance parts available for the FRS/BRZ, and want to have accurate, independent, 3rd party, dyno testing performed on our FRS. We will be happy to provide neutral and unbiased dyno testing of the parts, and we will also offer tunes including your specific part(s).

If you are interested, please feel free to contact me, my contact information is listed in my signature.

Last edited by Illusive; 01-27-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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The Following 42 Users Say Thank You to Illusive For This Useful Post:
Acree (01-28-2013), akuhei (02-06-2013), Amadeus (01-28-2013), Anorexic 86 (01-28-2013), ATL BRZ (02-07-2013), Blighty (01-29-2013), Boosted2.0 (01-28-2013), clayrush (02-06-2013), Craig (01-28-2013), Dimman (02-03-2013), Drift-Office (01-28-2013), fenton (02-07-2013), FR-S Matt (01-28-2013), gabeg86 (01-28-2013), GeeTee86 (02-06-2013), Hawk77FT (02-04-2013), industrial (01-28-2013), Ingen (02-08-2013), Laika (01-27-2013), lazyluka (02-06-2013), LeeMaster (02-06-2013), mad_sb (01-28-2013), MaXimus (03-12-2014), meeks (02-07-2013), mike2100 (01-28-2013), Mike86 (01-27-2013), number1Tango (01-28-2013), Obja (01-29-2013), rthaanum (02-04-2013), ScionOfHorus (11-26-2015), Shankenstein (01-28-2013), shu5892001 (01-28-2013), sierra (01-28-2013), SkAsphalt (01-28-2013), so26 (01-27-2013), Sportsguy83 (01-27-2013), WatchmaN (02-03-2013), Wepeel (05-19-2014), whataboutbob (01-27-2013), wichiewichie (02-07-2013), WithNolock (01-28-2013), wrxneffect (02-06-2013)
Old 01-27-2013, 10:02 PM   #2
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Amazing post. Very informative and very well presented. I was starting to get a little confused with all the different results being posted. Was very nice to see all of the different factors investigated in a controlled fashion. Cant wait to see some more results of popular add-ons!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:50 AM   #3
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Great info thank you. Just one note - SRT doesn't make just an axleback
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:53 AM   #4
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Btw have you found any correlation between oil temp and power? Perrin mentioned they had, saying an oil cooler would be important to ensure max gains under the most conditions.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusive View Post
....

Next up we have our tuned stock FRS, against a Tuned FRS with a nameless catted overpipe, midpipe with resonator, and SRT axle back.

Runfile 24 - Our custom tune with the exhaust mods listed - FRS
Runfile 110 - Our custom tune with a stock FRS


You can see where the exhaust helped, and where the biggest gains came from, and where the exhaust did not perform well.


...
Great Post! It's nice to see a tuner / tester posting up so much valuable reasearch for the community. People seem to think ECU's are some magical mystical mystery box full of unicorns and demons ... testing like this helps de mystify the tuning process for the masses. I Did something similar when the Evo X first came out... sadly the shop i used to tune for closed down and they sold the dynodynamics to a shop out of state

Quick question with the "Tuned FRS with a nameless catted overpipe, midpipe with resonator, and SRT axle back" did you do a retune from "scratch" with this car or was this a tuned car that latter added the exhaust parts?

My speculation has been that the reason people don't see much gain from tuning with boltons is because the tuners are using the same cam tuning they used for the stock motor. I think any real change in VE would require some tweaks to the cam timing and phasing as a result...

Of course, i do understand that a large portion of the gains from tuning are due to dialing in the AFR, so any bolton parts that also "tune" the afr will eat into the gains of tuning.. but for example, a free flowing exhaust should allow for more ignition timing (unless you are already at best torque timing which is unlikely on pump gas) and an altered cam timing profile.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #6
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Great info thank you. Just one note - SRT doesn't make just an axleback
TBH I haven't kept up with the plethora of exhaust mods and what the offerings are. I listed what the customer advised me they had.

It soulds like the customer may have had an SRT catback then with the nameless catted overpipe?
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:41 AM   #7
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Btw have you found any correlation between oil temp and power? Perrin mentioned they had, saying an oil cooler would be important to ensure max gains under the most conditions.
I have had the vehicle up to 107*C oil temps without a loss in power. The majority of our dyno runs were performed between 85*C and 100*C, as viewed on the live data on pro ecu.

I also have heard that Perrin had seen a power loss at higher oil temps, but I do not know at what temp they started seeing their power loss at.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mad_sb View Post
Great Post! It's nice to see a tuner / tester posting up so much valuable reasearch for the community. People seem to think ECU's are some magical mystical mystery box full of unicorns and demons ... testing like this helps de mystify the tuning process for the masses. I Did something similar when the Evo X first came out... sadly the shop i used to tune for closed down and they sold the dynodynamics to a shop out of state

Quick question with the "Tuned FRS with a nameless catted overpipe, midpipe with resonator, and SRT axle back" did you do a retune from "scratch" with this car or was this a tuned car that latter added the exhaust parts?

My speculation has been that the reason people don't see much gain from tuning with boltons is because the tuners are using the same cam tuning they used for the stock motor. I think any real change in VE would require some tweaks to the cam timing and phasing as a result...

Of course, i do understand that a large portion of the gains from tuning are due to dialing in the AFR, so any bolton parts that also "tune" the afr will eat into the gains of tuning.. but for example, a free flowing exhaust should allow for more ignition timing (unless you are already at best torque timing which is unlikely on pump gas) and an altered cam timing profile.
That particular customer already had the exhaust mods on the vehicle and an off the shelf Visconti tune when they drove in. The comparo is our tuned stock FRS against the customers tuned FRS with the exhaust mods. As we tune more vehicles with varying parts we will be referencing back to our tuned stock FRS as a "baseline". If a customer comes in with a stock vehicle and wants to dyno test before and after and then tune we will have more "baseline" stock tuned data. But for now we just have ours to reference.

The cam phasing was re-tuned and optimized for the customer with the exhaust mods.

We optimize cam phasing for every custom tune that has variable valve timing. Its generally our first step before the final ignition and afr tuning can take place.

Having said that, the cam phasing didn't change a whole lot with the exhaust mods compared to stock after it was all said and done.

Last edited by Illusive; 01-28-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:17 AM   #9
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Nice work, wish you guys were closer. All the reputable shops in my area seem to have gone bust or aren't working this platform.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #10
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The results suggest the exhaust mods give very small gains for the cost involved.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #11
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The results suggest the exhaust mods give very small gains for the cost involved.
We hope to get a full exhaust (header, catless overpipe, midpipe, axel back) on our dyno, so we can see for ourselves what the gains are from a complete exhaust.

As it stands the one tested still has 2 cats, the OEM cat and the catted nameless overpipe. I suspect if both were removed peak power could climb another 3-4 whp. We will just have to wait and see.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierra View Post
The results suggest the exhaust mods give very small gains for the cost involved.
I guess intake and exhaust are really just there for sound and look

Sigh.

At least my car looks better than stock now and sounds better....
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:44 AM   #13
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I definitely want to drive to Sealy from RR to have my car tuned once my parts are in. Great information. Thanks DD Performance Research!
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:19 AM   #14
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We hope to get a full exhaust (header, catless overpipe, midpipe, axel back) on our dyno, so we can see for ourselves what the gains are from a complete exhaust.

As it stands the one tested still has 2 cats, the OEM cat and the catted nameless overpipe. I suspect if both were removed peak power could climb another 3-4 whp. We will just have to wait and see.
It's a massive difference between your results and the results that Nameless posted here with a peak 12hp gain and that's with the original overpipe. Your test apparently had a different axleback, not the Nameless one but they claimed most of the gains from the downpipe with the HF cat.
Is that difference then due to incorrect dyno operation, meaning that the actual gains are negligible?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10011
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