FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Where do you measure oil pressure? Wouldn't an intake tube collapse only if it's not getting enough oil? The oil passages are designed to work with the stock pump and thin oil, not more flow, more pressure, and 50 weight race oil.

Not really following you. With an external pressure stage the oil pump sucks oil from the dry sump tank. Most lines are rated for high pressure and not high vacuum and therefore they can and do collapse.

There is nothing inside your FA motor at all that makes it so special you have to run 20w oil. That is a complete myth perpetuated by owner manual readers and not engine specialists. Viscosity changes with temperature so you pick your oil weight based on your demands. 20w gets the job done in NA form due to low power an effort to reduce drag, and better fuel economy. Add a turbo and look Subaru recommends 5w30 on the WRX FA20 (yes we build those two andI know everything about the internal measurements there). Subaru also fitted a larger oil pump and we all know why.
:
Anyways just stating the facts. Run any oil weight you want.....there's no voodoo!

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by sam69

If I was NA I would most likely say no worries but as I'm going to be FI and pushing approx 22 psi I'm thinking it may be to bigger risk as you were saying that there's not enough oil pressure at the lower revs and a PD charger only makes pressures at lower revs worse .

Bottom line is what would you do ??

Well most superchargers don't make near the power or torque compared to the turbo kits on the market so oil pressure demands aren't really as high.

What I would do and recommend would make your pocketbook very light. LOL! If you've already built your motor, roll the dice but put a pressure gauge on and monitor it like a hawk.

[killboy]

Originally Posted by sam69

If I was NA I would most likely say no worries but as I'm going to be FI and pushing approx 22 psi I'm thinking it may be to bigger risk as you were saying that there's not enough oil pressure at the lower revs and a PD charger only makes pressures at lower revs worse .

Bottom line is what would you do ??

I just want to know what PD charger you are planning to use that makes 22psi.

[Element Tuning]

[killboy]

It just doesn't handle like it used to.

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Not really following you. With an external pressure stage the oil pump sucks oil from the dry sump tank. Most lines are rated for high pressure and not high vacuum and therefore they can and do collapse.

There is nothing inside your FA motor at all that makes it so special you have to run 20w oil. That is a complete myth perpetuated by owner manual readers and not engine specialists. Viscosity changes with temperature so you pick your oil weight based on your demands. 20w gets the job done in NA form due to low power an effort to reduce drag, and better fuel economy. Add a turbo and look Subaru recommends 5w30 on the WRX FA20 (yes we build those two andI know everything about the internal measurements there). Subaru also fitted a larger oil pump and we all know why.
:
Anyways just stating the facts. Run any oil weight you want.....there's no voodoo!

Your pump looks tiny. Was it just single stage scavenge? How did you feed back to the stock pump?

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

Your pump looks tiny. Was it just single stage scavenge? How did you feed back to the stock pump?

It's actually a huge 2" pressure stage only (that is why you think it looks small). Flows over 20 gal/min.

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

It's actually a huge 2" pressure stage only (that is why you think it looks small). Flows over 20 gal/min.

Ok i'm a bit confused then as to how your setup worked as I thought you were running the upgraded stock pump with a scavenge pump.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

Ok i'm a bit confused then as to how your setup worked as I thought you were running the upgraded stock pump with a scavenge pump.

I am currently running the OEM oil pump with an Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine package as I have always been with the exception to the one race where I tested the aftermarket oil pump gear.

The external oil pump has never proven better than the OEM pump at delivering optimal oil pressure. I am only testing the pressure stage because that is the most critical (not the scavenge stages). What would the point of releasing a 3 stage $6k dry sump kit when it produces less oil pressure than the OEM pump?

We've got 95% of the hardcore power guys handled with our motor builds. Any power you can throw at it, we've got you covered for drag racing and street abuse. It's the last 5% who are high power road racers (400+ hp) that we are trying to help.

[texasbound972]

http://www.manchestersubaru.com/suba...thetic-oil.htm



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[Calum]

Originally Posted by texasbound972

http://www.manchestersubaru.com/suba...thetic-oil.htm



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What was the point of this post?

[texasbound972]

Originally Posted by Calum

What was the point of this post?

Just some info about what oil subaru recommends running if there is a turbo or not. Big debate over oil.

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[Calum]

Originally Posted by texasbound972

Just some info about what oil subaru recommends running if there is a turbo or not. Big debate over oil.

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The only people that debate about which oil to use are the ones that don't know enough to make the decision based solely on facts. I don't have that knowledge, but the original poster certainly does. I know enough to understand that bearing clearances, bearing size, connecting rod force, oil temperature, and oil pressure are involved in the decision. Based on that, it should be obvious that the oil properties should be based on what the engine is going to be used for. Elemental Tuning builds their engines and they know exactly what each of those parameters is, so they are well aware of what oil they should be using in their builds to suit various end users.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by texasbound972

http://www.manchestersubaru.com/suba...thetic-oil.htm



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Wrong. You use the oil viscosity required for whatever conditions the engine is being used in or used for. If you have a stock engine, oem power, and the car is daily driven then by all means use the factory recommend oil.

If you have triple the oem power and you run your oil at 280 degrees under track conditions, you do not use the oem oil viscosity.