How to protect carbon fiber? PPF vs Ceramic

[HaXx]

Im getting a carbon trunk, its new, never used. i know many pieces fade in the sun/oxidize after a while. because its new, i feel like this would be a good time to either PPF it, or Ceramic coat it at my local detail shop. ive never done anything like this before. Thoughts? i found this picture, but trust your guys opinions more.

im mainly looking to protect the clear coat from fading in the sun. its your typical seibon trunk.

[DarkPira7e]

Solely for the reason that a film can fail to adhere correctly and can be peeled off, I would always opt for coating like ceramic.
Swirl marks, small scratches, and water spots can all be buffed out. Rock chips will affect any surface, it just mitigates the really tiny ones. How often do you plan on rocks hitting your trunk?

[RToyo86]

Ceramic will look better, PPF will protect better.


Most ceramic coatings are rated 2-7 years. DIY coatings are around 2. Like Cquartz UK and gloss coat fit into that category.
Opti-coat being on the higher end as a one time coating with 5-7 year warranty.
You can still scratch, swirl and Marr over a coating. Which means to correct defects, you need to polish them out and reapply a coating again.

PPF will protect from swirls, marring at the cost of a bit of depth and clarity. You get 7-10 years out of PPF before it needs replacing.

For a decklid you probably do not need impact protection of PPF. But if you don't ever want to deal with polishing out scratches or swirls it's a one time application.

You can also apply a ceramic coating over PPF, not that it's required.

[mrhayes1]

Here's my 2 cents. Much of the carbon I see is really shit IMO. Doesn't save much weight and ends up looking like crap after a couple years and is hazy and yellow. Anyway, end of rant on that lol. If you like the way carbon looks that is most important I guess. I would recommend just doing the ceramic coating yourself with a spray on product. IMO, ceramic coating is overrated unless you have a really nice car that justifies that cost. Plus you would still need PPF because ceramic coating does not protect against rock chips (no where near PPF). I use Mequires spray on ceramic coating. The PPF (clear bra) available today is excellent. I have the front ends of 2 cars done (including headlights). But IMO, the main purpose of PPF is to protect against rock chips. I would love to PPF and ceramic my entire car, but it isn't worth the cost. I don't really see the point in doing anything to the trunk because the trunk is one part of the car that takes the least amount of abuse. If it was me, I would save money I would spend on professional ceramic coating or PPF for the trunk and save that to have the clear coat on the trunk resprayed after a few years (if needed). Also, I am not aware of any PPF that has a UV protectant in it, which is what you need to protect carbon from fading. Also, I would argue that using a spray on ceramic coating product regularly is potentially better than a professional ceramic coating because you can reapply it regular whereas the professional ceramic coating is quite expensive and thus you likely will only be doing it once. I have seen as much as $2k to get a whole car done. I would absolutely recommend PPF for the front bumper though. My car is a 2013 FRS with 110,000 miles and the front end looks nicer than 90% of the 86s you see on the roads. PPF on the front bumper stops over 99% of rock chips; no joke.

[RToyo86]

Meant to add this earlier but really there is no need to spend money to have the decklid ceramic coated professionally. You can do it your self for $60-180 depending on the brand. Application is very simple, in most cases as easy or easier than applying a sealant. Consumer grade coatings are meant to be forgiving to work with and aren't finicky as pro grade stuff you may read reviews on(and you cannot buy off of the shelf anyways)

You would have leftover product which you can use to coat your wheels, plastics or paint etc.

A fresh trunk will require next to no prep needed which is 70-90% of the work a shop charges for. You could hand polish optionally if you see something, then apply diluted IPA/water mix before applying to ensure best adhesion. I use Carpro eraser which is a premade formula.


Example. 10cc of optimum gloss coat cost me $88CAD, and 5-6cc did my entire car(including my front end which has PPF). You'd need >1cc for the trunk. I have hyper-seal for my topper/dry-aid which is a optional Sio2 spec sealant formulated for the coating, so it won't ruin the hydrophobics. It cost me $50 for a bottle good for 50+ uses on my car.

Carpro Cquartz UK, Optimum Gloss Coat, GTechniq Crystal Serum Light, KAMIKAZE MIYABI, GYEON Q2 Mohs are all good options. Gloss coat is probably the easiest to apply, but has the lowest longevity. Crystal serum lite + EXO combo can go up to five years. Most of those are all around $120. When the hydrophobics fail, a polish will reprep the surface and you can apply again.

There are tons of tutorials for the specific coatings which take any guess work out of it. Like

.

[HaXx]

Originally Posted by mrhayes1

Here's my 2 cents. Much of the carbon I see is really shit IMO. Doesn't save much weight and ends up looking like crap after a couple years and is hazy and yellow.

thank you for this write up, its EXACTLY what i was looking to hear. yes the seibon is just a typical frp wrapped in carbon i believe. besides i think the trunk(like the hood) is aluminum and is already really lightweight. doing this for appearance only, hence wanting to protect it from sun fade/oxidation. so it sounds like ill save some money by buying the ceramic and doing it myself, semi-often.

ceramic coatings ADVERTISE that they are uv protectants, is this actually ture? because this s my main concern. as you said, im not at all worried about rock chips, being a trunk.

ps i do have ppf on my front end, on just half the hood iirc.

[HaXx]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

Carpro Cquartz UK, Optimum Gloss Coat, GTechniq Crystal Serum Light, KAMIKAZE MIYABI, GYEON Q2 Mohs are all good options. Gloss coat is probably the easiest to apply, but has the lowest longevity. Crystal serum lite + EXO combo can go up to five years. Most of those are all around $120. When the hydrophobics fail, a polish will reprep the surface and you can apply again.

There are tons of tutorials for the specific coatings which take any guess work out of it. Like

.

i was planning to get AvalonKing ceramic coating, unless you really convince me its utter garbage. my favorite youtuber is sponsored by them (devin niemela) , so ive just seen him use it a million times, so what can i say, marketing worked.

but im a fan of gold standard, tried and true products. theyre usually the best value. it sounds like the gold standard ceramic is optimum gloss coat? suitable purchase for a first time ceramic experience?

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by HaXx

i was planning to get AvalonKing ceramic coating, unless you really convince me its utter garbage. my favorite youtuber is sponsored by them (devin niemela) , so ive just seen him use it a million times, so what can i say, marketing worked.

but im a fan of gold standard, tried and true products. theyre usually the best value. it sounds like the gold standard ceramic is optimum gloss coat? suitable purchase for a first time ceramic experience?

Nothing wrong with Avalon. Not as common but it's a good product. It looks like it's layerable which adds durability. You have seen it applied so that should make things easy.

Gloss coat is a good gateway coating. 1-2 year lifespan in its own. It's a hybrid SIC/Sio2 coating, so no need to layer. It has advantages for application purposes, like being able to add opti-seal an hour after coating and being able to drive the car within a few hours. I had hyper-seal and opti-seal already so it made sense to stick with optimum.

For coating a trunk you won't have this issue, so you can take your time with whatever you choose.

[HaXx]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

For coating a trunk you won't have this issue, so you can take your time with whatever you choose.

so whats the real deal between the $20 meguires ceramic spray bottles, and the tiny 5hr energy size $80 bottles?

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by HaXx

so whats the real deal between the $20 meguires ceramic spray bottles, and the tiny 5hr energy size $80 bottles?

The main difference is longevity and chemical resistance which coatings are destined to excel at. Coatings also have the highest UV Resistance, ceramic sprays are relatively new but it would be safe for me to assume they are next in line for UV protection followed by conventional sealants/waxes.

Ceramic sealants are starting to have similar hydrophobic water sheeting and beading properties as coatings. But their self cleaning abilities to shed off dirt doesn't quite seem to be on par.


Store bought stuff like meguiars ceramic spray are ceramic infused sealants. Takes one of the ingredients from the little bottles of coating and mixes it with a more conventional sealant. Spray on wipe off, or spray on rinse off for meguiars. Advertised 6-12m durability. Much easier to work with as you can't screw up application. Realistically 6 months durability. Harsh conditions will kill that much quicker, like winter for example.

Coatings like Cquartz or avalonking have more precise installation instructions. They're more like a resin that hardens over the paint. Application via pads to deliver even coverage, 30-90 seconds to flash and harden to the paint, then leveled off excess coating/Resin. They all have their own final cure times where they become their most chemically resistant and/or gloss levels. Failure to level the leftover coating/resin leaves "high spots" which will look like a minor blemish on the surface. Purely aesthetic but undesirable.


Fun fact, something you will probably start to hear more about soon are graphene coatings. They're being advertised as the next phase of coatings. Said to retain less heat, easier application, more dust repellent, and more durable. They're relatively new and I've only seen a handful of YouTuber detailers like apex detail and forensic detailing channel getting their hands on it.
Whether it's all hype or not is up in the air.

[mrhayes1]

Yes I believe the Mothers spray on ceramic does include UV protection. As to the details and technology behind that, I cannot speak of. I did quite a bit of research on car detailing a while back and don't remember all the specific details I read, but contrary to historical opinions, the best option today for full detail of cars is to heavy wash, clay bar, polish and all that and then follow up with a ceramic coating/sealant. Sealants are superior to carnauba waxes in every way except they don't quite offer the deep shine that wax gives you. Like a wax, you can apply ceramic coating/sealant over top PPF so I recommend doing your headlights to protect the PPF film and prevent headlights from fading, etc. Also note that I said McGuires in my last post. I meant Mothers Ceramic Spray. It is a grey bottle with red sprayer. One last tip, don't mix wax and sealants/ceramics sprays. If you are gonna do the ceramic sealant, just do that don't use any wax and you need to apply ceramic sealant on a very clean and clay barred car with no wax residue for best results.

[ls1ac]

It is also possible to get it sprayed with a high UV stopping clear coat, then whatever you want to cover it with. Best of both. Most carbon fiber comes poorly protected.

[HaXx]

just a little follow up, i purchased avalon king ceramic coat. its the "expensive stuff in the little bottle" style, i coated it twice, then again the next morning, then waited 3 days before installing the trunk. all seems well.

[HaXx]

Its been a while, and time for an update. I went with Avalon King ceramic coating, the little bottle stuff thats expensive. i hate to say im not impressed at all. (theyre a smaller brand, they give free stuff to my fav youtuber, so i bought it. theyres typos on the bottle it comes in, would not buy again). dirt and dust does not wipe off the carbon trunk any easier, and worst of all, it seems to not be helping against uv fade whatsoever.

uv protection was the sole reason i bought ceramic to begin with. i bought the trunk second hand, but it was never previously installed. its been on one month. My car parks outside, and already, im noticing a touch of uv fading. im going to buy a popular standard $10 spray on wax with uv protection and see if that works better (303 aerospace/ultimate uv protectant). When it comes to stuff like this, i feel its best to just go with the tried and true stuff. dont be the first to experiment with this or that, just do what everyone else does, who has time for this stuff? if i were to buy ceramic coat again, i would go with the most popular option, optimum gloss coat.

its hard to make out, but on the top surface just on the ducktail, its starting to whiten, cloud