Ford will stop selling cars by 2022...

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

I may have missed it, but the press release made no mention of the ST and RS for the North American market.



My understanding is that the ST and RS programs are not going anywhere, but this is the end of the those products in North America. One Ford (global architectures/models) will continue to be their paradigm, but the product mix will be drastically different for our market.

That just makes me sad. I was considering the ST (or even a lightly used RS) as the successor to my twin The ST from what I have heard was a great car.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

That just makes me sad. I was considering the ST (or even a lightly used RS) as the successor to my twin The ST from what I have heard was a great car.

There's going to be a lot of sad enthusiasts, but the reality is Ford had to put enormous incentives on the hood to move the Focus ST and Fiesta ST. You can sustain that in a high margin car like the F150 or Mustang. On a low margin car like the STs? Nah...

Edit: I will add that the domestics are all trying to move up average transaction prices. Compare the 2018 Mustang GT to the 2017. The price has increased considerably and gets more expensive than the Camaro 2SS once you opt for the Performance Pack 2 goodies.

[mazeroni]

Since the ST and RS now fall under Ford Performance, they might have their own business strategy and funding that might allow them to important either car.

Although I'd be mighty skeptical of ever seeing another Fiesta model.

I'd guess we'll see an ST/ RS of the Ford Active. Similar to how other markets get the MB A45 hatch, but we only get the GLA45 lifted wagon/ crossover thing.

[JustSomeGuy]

GUYS!! you are all missing what is really going on, they are moving onto bigger and better things in the world..

please know this is not photo shopped by me, it was 100% accurate from Mr. Ford himself

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

GUYS!! you are all missing what is really going on, they are moving onto bigger and better things in the world..

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRl_D_CunWA"]ibm-why-no-flying-cars-why-why-why.mov - YouTube[/ame]

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

There are so many here, and they are all either cops or soccer moms.

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of them. Seems like you get much more for your money with something like a VW Atlas. Not to mention everyone in front of you is going to slow to a crawl, especially if you get one in white lol. That said, happy wife is a happy life. And I don't think there's much functional difference between any of the 3 row SUV's.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I think a lot of people are worried that the future is going to be:

75% crossovers, big ass SUVs, and pickups
24.9% driverless vehicles
0.1% supercars

- Andrew

Yeah I get that and honestly, that's probably the direction things are heading. But this specific announcement from Ford cutting their mostly non-competitive sedan offerings isn't that big a deal, at least for me. At least they're going to keep making the Mustang!

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah I get that and honestly, that's probably the direction things are heading. But this specific announcement from Ford cutting their mostly non-competitive sedan offerings isn't that big a deal, at least for me. At least they're going to keep making the Mustang!

Well, that's because their business model for the Mustang is based on car show replacements. Why else do you think they kept the live axel so long. They only changed it because drivers finally got bad enough that they didn't need a live axel to crash. For every Mustang they sell there's a certain percentage that they will get another sale to the same customer in short order.

[zigzagz94]

Unfortunately this is the way the entire industry is going. Blame your friends, family, and neighbors because they're the ones voting with their dollars. SUV's and Trucks are selling tons and at high profit margins so that's what all the companies are going to pour their resources into.

We're just lucky that some manufacturers will occasionally throw us enthusiasts, who actually enjoy driving, a bone every once in a while. More reasons to appreciate your 86. Honestly it's amazing these things even exists in today's automotive climate. I love mine, just paid it off, and don't think I'm ever going to get rid of it.

[serialk11r]

Whoa. I always thought low end sedans were kind of a weird thing because in the US market, there are so many used cars that you have tons of options to save money. Who buys these things? I know someone who got a new Kia sedan, probably because they just felt like an extra few k for a new car vs a used Honda or Toyota isn't a big deal, but most people either go for something nicer like a 3 series, or something "cool" like a Jeep, if they're buying a car at all (pretty rare).

I guess my gut feeling about these cars not being really viable was right. We are indeed on the way to roads with only SUVs and autonomous cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Whoa. I always thought low end sedans were kind of a weird thing because in the US market, there are so many used cars that you have tons of options to save money. Who buys these things? I know someone who got a new Kia sedan, probably because they just felt like an extra few k for a new car vs a used Honda or Toyota isn't a big deal, but most people either go for something nicer like a 3 series, or something "cool" like a Jeep, if they're buying a car at all (pretty rare).

I guess my gut feeling about these cars not being really viable was right. We are indeed on the way to roads with only SUVs and autonomous cars.

The idea of the low end sedan not being viable is relatively recent and directly linked to the advances in the low end SUV and CUV. For most of automotive history the low end sedan ruled the car market. The fall from grace started back in the 80s with the introduction of minivans has has avvelerated every since.
Many many want new cars and that included sedans. I can never wrap my head around the frequently stated "just buy a better used one". Where do all these used cars come from if nobody should buy new?
I don't think "most people" buy the higher end or cool stuff. Base models and inexpensive vehicles outsell higher trims by margins that reach the thousands to one. The less costly versions will always sell the best since that is what most people want. Just because Ford is doing away with their sedans (even the top trims) doesn't mean the sedan is dead. The other makers maybe rubbing their hands in glee at the still substantial market that will open up.

[why?]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Whoa. I always thought low end sedans were kind of a weird thing because in the US market, there are so many used cars that you have tons of options to save money. Who buys these things? I know someone who got a new Kia sedan, probably because they just felt like an extra few k for a new car vs a used Honda or Toyota isn't a big deal, but most people either go for something nicer like a 3 series, or something "cool" like a Jeep, if they're buying a car at all (pretty rare).

I guess my gut feeling about these cars not being really viable was right. We are indeed on the way to roads with only SUVs and autonomous cars.

actually the issue is the used car market is still messed up and good used cars are just as expensive as their new car rivals. To get a decent deal on a used car you have to risk something with 100k or more miles.

Sedans are still very viable, Toyota still sells everything really well. The problem is Ford's cars have not been competitive in a very long time and realize they sell 7 "suv's or crossovers." They make a ton more money selling an Explorer then they ever did selling a fusion.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Is it? On the street, I see a lot of F-150 & Raptor, but car wise, I see Focus and Fiesta a lot more than SUV/CUV. Maybe just my area... or maybe I'm not noticing it.

Do you really live in middle of nowhere. I noticed a lot of middle of no where areas are poor and they tend to own cheap cars that are cheap to run. I did some traveling up north a couple years ago and saw a TON of chevy cruze. Was in mexico last year and saw a ton of cheap hatchback s i forget the brands.

Trucks are actually expensive if bought new. Auto financing is out of control right now inthe US at least. Average car payment is over $500 now i think is last i read, and more than 80% of new car purchases are financed. I see people at my work place who must be making not more than $20/hr driving lexus, acura, bmw, etc. Their reasoning is "i work hard i deserve it"

Anyway let me stop before i get this off topic

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Average car payment is over $500 now

And 84 month loans are very popular too...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The idea of the low end sedan not being viable is relatively recent and directly linked to the advances in the low end SUV and CUV. For most of automotive history the low end sedan ruled the car market. The fall from grace started back in the 80s with the introduction of minivans has has avvelerated every since.
Many many want new cars and that included sedans. I can never wrap my head around the frequently stated "just buy a better used one". Where do all these used cars come from if nobody should buy new?
I don't think "most people" buy the higher end or cool stuff. Base models and inexpensive vehicles outsell higher trims by margins that reach the thousands to one.

Right, people now are attracted to the many offerings of tall CUVs.

"just buy a better used one" -> Let me be very clear, I am not talking about a better used car, I'm talking about a cheaper used car. I understand the appeal of a new car with warranty, but in my experience the "buy used to save money" philosophy is very, very popular in the US. In some other countries, this isn't the case.

Sorry I didn't use the right words by saying "most people...go for nicer stuff", I was trying to say that people I know who have disposable income and buy a car will choose to spend a little more, if they want a car at all. This is NYC (car is not practical, it's just a toy), SF (slightly less useless, but you might as well get something nicer since parking is 400/month), and LA/SF suburbs (you spend so much time in the car in traffic, you might as well have a more enjoyable car to be in). I understand people in other parts of the country have a greater need for an economy car that can rack up miles for cheap, but how much money is the manufacturer making off these ultra cheap cars? Probably very little, which explains why Ford is getting out. Seems like Kia/Hyundai pulling a Walmart worked well.