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Old 04-21-2014, 01:48 PM   #85
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Yeah, cause I wasn't pissed off at Toyota enough already. I'm prepping to sell my Toyota Celica and have bought into chevy because of the Scion bullshit with the 86. That would be the final nail in the coffin of no return.
And I'd be so sorry to see you go. No, really...


Short and sweet version of my opinion on this:

1) Cut the xB and xD. xB is old and should have been discontinued a couple years ago and replaced. I am clueless as to why they bothered to replace the xA with the xD. To date, I believe I have seen 2 on the roads outside of car meets. xD is a flop. iQ, even if I have only seen 1 on the roads since it was released here, has enough of a niche that it can still be produced without being much of a loss.

2) tC will be kept simply because it sells at a fairly regular rate. However, as the Corolla becomes more agressive in styling, sales will begin to fall off for the tC.

3) The "micro-truck" market is due for a big splash. Ever since the Ranger and S-10 bit the dust, it has been a gaping hole that GM has attempted to fill in with the Chevy Colorado. Toyota would be wise to try to get something in this slot, see my point #5 as to why I think it would be a good idea to start this micro-truck as a Scion

4) Small CUV/SUV: Please, don't. Do those of us who own Scion really want to be associated with the next Geo Tracker?



5) Scion should become more of a test bed to bringing new models or styling into the US. Think of it as a qualifier for Toyota: They want to bring in a new vehicle or new body style into the US market, initially badge it as a Scion. Give it 2-3 years to determine if it sells well, and if its accepted, "graduate" it to Toyota, replacing some of the old models if not introducing them as new to Toyota. For example, the tC graduating into the "new" Corolla, xD graduated into the "new" Yaris, the FR-S becoming a new model "Supra-Lite." This way Scion continues to be about what is new and different in the auto world, as opposed to something that is supposed to cater to the "hip youth."
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:21 PM   #86
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Keep your celica. As of now, it's the last made Toyota sports car in the US with a fantastically reliable Toyota engine. (I consider the tC a sport compact, and let's just leave the LFA out) FWD or not, I still get excited when I see them. It reminds me of why I enjoy Toyota so much, cars like the celica. Inexpensive, super reliable, easy to work on, maintain and repair. And you have the GT-s with the Action Package, great looking car.

When they were on sale, I didn't quite realize how much I appreciate them like I do now. I would love to have one as a DD and keep my FR-S for the weekend.
I only have room for one car since I bought a house. I don't drive the Celica in winter at all. My Celica has an ACT clutch that is barely streetable and a CAI that damn near scrapes the ground so when we get our flash floods it's impossible to go anywhere with it, unless I want to hydro lock. Plus, being that low, I'm sure scrapping snow into it wouldn't help either.

I love the car, it's amazing fun to drive, I have the 6 speed, the 2ZZ is honestly my favorite engine of any car I've had. That scream when lift does its thing is fantastic. The reliability is there for sure. I used to have a Toyota Cressida (MKIII Supra in sedan clothing) too and that thing was great, I'm a long time Toyota customer/fan.

With Toyota North America's current direction, they had 10 years to sort it out, they've blown it. Japan tried to help them out but they had to make the 86 a Scion and do what they did to it. There's no Toyota sports car still. I tried to deal with it and go the Scion route but the dealership couldn't get me any of the removed Toyota parts I wanted. I wrote emails and letters to Toyota, including an eight page letter to Seiji Ichii, President and CEO of Toyota Canada, at my local dealers suggestion, and the best response I got was "the scion FR-S is sold in North America and the GT 86 will not be sold." Didn't even respond to my request to get the parts.

The Toyota I knew and loved is dead and gone. I can't rep them anymore and I've got a Chev Cobalt SS Turbo now. I can drive it in winter, it's still fun with more power, not as satisfying as the 2ZZ scream, but it's still good. They balanced the SS at 50/50, brembo brakes, rebranded eibach suspension upgrades over base 'balts, it's a decent package. At least until something else comes up, but Toyota has done everything they can to turn me away and nothing to keep me.

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see to me I always viewed the tc as the celica gt replacement being the new sport compact (never considered the fwd celicas a sports car).

And I don't understand the scion hate seeing how it is just another marquee of toyota . Most people know scions are toyotas. Hell my old tc was titled as a toyota...
If you can find one with a 2ZZ, take it for a spin and you must hit redline. Normally you advise against that, but with the 2ZZ it's a must and you'll understand why when you do it. The engine is made to do just that. In spite of being FWD it handles amazingly well and they weigh ~2550 lbs. The tC never was a replacement for the Celica in my eyes, not even close.

I've gone over, plenty of times, why I hate Scion on these forums. There's more reasons than what I listed in this post. I really don't want to get into those details again.

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And I'd be so sorry to see you go. No, really...
I don't recall the username, so I'm not sure if you're serious or sarcastic.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:53 PM   #87
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I have driven both a 5th gen celica and a 7th gen celica gt-s(with turbo) . And to me the tc seemed to be a direct descendant of the 5th gen celica with the 5s-fe. Not the sportiest of cars but sportyish compact coupes with a toyota fe motor powering the front wheels. What really solidified my belief in that the tc was a celica successor was the motorsports use (celebrity race), pricing, and overall nature of the car. But I won't disagree that the gt-s trims we're a completely different beast utilizing toyota's ge motors such as the 7th generation powered by the 2zz
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:54 PM   #88
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That and the insurance.

I'd bet >50% of the young frz drivers on this site have it insured by their parents and at most are just an "occasional driver" in terms of what the insurance is told.
Or insured by their wife. Which also works in similarly to having the parents sign if you are married.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:50 PM   #89
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I don't recall the username, so I'm not sure if you're serious or sarcastic.
Yes, sarcasm. But you are welcome to your opinion, however jaded it has become. Your story above about even writing Toyota Corporate at the suggestion of your dealer (which, I'm sure you know, was just a tactic to get you off his back) just reeks of whining. Like it or not, the FR-S is a Scion, and the tens of thousands of people who have bought them so far seem to not have an issue with that.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:03 PM   #90
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another thing Toyota could do

Bring back the Short Wheelbase FJ70

i mean the FJ70 is still being produced today it's not like it would be too hard to update it for US markets

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Old 04-21-2014, 04:29 PM   #91
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I have driven both a 5th gen celica and a 7th gen celica gt-s(with turbo) . And to me the tc seemed to be a direct descendant of the 5th gen celica with the 5s-fe. Not the sportiest of cars but sportyish compact coupes with a toyota fe motor powering the front wheels. What really solidified my belief in that the tc was a celica successor was the motorsports use (celebrity race), pricing, and overall nature of the car. But I won't disagree that the gt-s trims we're a completely different beast utilizing toyota's ge motors such as the 7th generation powered by the 2zz
7th gen didn't have a turbo option, that would have been aftermarket and likely had other work done. If you want to look at 5th gen, you have to go All-Trac or GT-Four, they were AWD with the 3S-GTE. Wish I could have gotten my hands on a 6th gen GT-Four. We didn't get the good ones in North America. The tC does not live up to the Celica name at all, nor was it sold as one in Japan.

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Yes, sarcasm. But you are welcome to your opinion, however jaded it has become. Your story above about even writing Toyota Corporate at the suggestion of your dealer (which, I'm sure you know, was just a tactic to get you off his back) just reeks of whining. Like it or not, the FR-S is a Scion, and the tens of thousands of people who have bought them so far seem to not have an issue with that.
Well aren't you presumptuous and judgmental. All around toxic really. There are plenty of people who have an issue with it, quite a few used to frequent this forum. Yes, there are people buying it, but take a look at what other cars are for sale like it right now. None. The second another one comes out guess where the band wagon jumpers will go? I'm an old school Toyota fan who has been around for years, not a band wagon jumper. I'm going to leave it at that though, there's no point in talking to someone like you.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:37 PM   #92
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Well aren't you presumptuous and judgmental. All around toxic really. There are plenty of people who have an issue with it, quite a few used to frequent this forum. Yes, there are people buying it, but take a look at what other cars are for sale like it right now. None. The second another one comes out guess where the band wagon jumpers will go? I'm an old school Toyota fan who has been around for years, not a band wagon jumper. I'm going to leave it at that though, there's no point in talking to someone like you.
Not any more presumptuous, judgemental and toxic than you, buddy. The majority of your posts that I have seen have been negative with respect to Scion and the direction that Toyota has taken since you bought your beloved Celica (which, for what its worth, was a great car).

And its nice to make statements that are based on assumptions. If I'm wrong, I will gladly admit it when the evidence is given to me. You, I wonder, but I'd like to think you would be capable of the same.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:43 PM   #93
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Not any more presumptuous, judgemental and toxic than you, buddy. The majority of your posts that I have seen have been negative with respect to Scion and the direction that Toyota has taken since you bought your beloved Celica (which, for what its worth, was a great car).

And its nice to make statements that are based on assumptions.
The difference is that I gave Scion and Toyota multiple chances and based my view of them on how they went about doing things compared to Toyota of old. You made a view point without knowing what I discussed with them or knowing the history.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #94
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The difference is that I gave Scion and Toyota multiple chances and based my view of them on how they went about doing things compared to Toyota of old. You made a view point without knowing what I discussed with them or knowing the history.
And you were one past customer/squeaky fuel pump that was making a lot of noise about something that at the end of the day Toyota saw no need to address. In case you hadn't figured it out by now, modern-day Toyota does not give a flying bat-sh*t what one past customer thinks.

If you really wanted your GT86, you could have done like quite a few other owners did, re-badge and refit parts that would have given it the GT86 look. Could be pricey, but if that's what you really wanted, you would have done it. You're probably right, I don't know the whole story, but from outward appearances, you decided to go it alone and try to force a multi-billion-dollar international corporation to do something that they had already decided against. Excuse me if I find that a total exercise in futility.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:18 PM   #95
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And you were one past customer/squeaky fuel pump that was making a lot of noise about something that at the end of the day Toyota saw no need to address. In case you hadn't figured it out by now, modern-day Toyota does not give a flying bat-sh*t what one past customer thinks.

If you really wanted your GT86, you could have done like quite a few other owners did, re-badge and refit parts that would have given it the GT86 look. Could be pricey, but if that's what you really wanted, you would have done it. You're probably right, I don't know the whole story, but from outward appearances, you decided to go it alone and try to force a multi-billion-dollar international corporation to do something that they had already decided against. Excuse me if I find that a total exercise in futility.
Ah, see, had you known the history or looked at my previous posts or even read my one post in this thread, you would know I tried to refit parts and re-badge. Check the link in my sig, I created the list of all the differences between the Toyota and Scion versions. That was what my letter to them was about, getting the parts. I offered them the cash but they refused. You say I stand alone yet there are many who agree with me and supported the view point. We made our complaints to Toyota, because if you don't say a thing, they don't know and can't make a change. It obviously worked to some degree as some of those parts have been made available on special editions like the 10 series, monogram or the upcoming RS. Still they're missing parts I want and I can't get my hands on the parts.

I have no issue with the dealer either, to their credit they tried to help me. Hell, every time I've gone in for service on the Celica the Scion guy walks up to me and talks to me, if he sees me. He went over people's heads to try and get me the parts. He even showed me an aftermarket parts magazine for the 86 he got from Japan on one of my visits. They weren't trying to get rid of me, they were trying to make a sale and corporate screwed them out of one.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:29 PM   #96
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7th gen didn't have a turbo option, that would have been aftermarket and likely had other work done. If you want to look at 5th gen, you have to go All-Trac or GT-Four, they were AWD with the 3S-GTE. Wish I could have gotten my hands on a 6th gen GT-Four. We didn't get the good ones in North America. The tC does not live up to the Celica name at all, nor was it sold as one in Japan.

the turbo was aftermarket somewhere around 350-400whp. And I already have looked at the 5th gen and stated I see the tc being similar to a non gt-s version of any celica and even admitted the gt-s versions we're completely different beasts in a class of there own. The all-trac is also a completely different beast since it's awd just like the celica supra's are different beasts because they're rwd.... And I agree to disagree to me the tc lived up to the name in the united states ... yea it wasn't sold in japan but do you blame toyota the 7th gen celica was stupid expensive for what it was by the end of it's run.
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:02 PM   #97
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the turbo was aftermarket somewhere around 350-400whp. And I already have looked at the 5th gen and stated I see the tc being similar to a non gt-s version of any celica and even admitted the gt-s versions we're completely different beasts in a class of there own. The all-trac is also a completely different beast since it's awd just like the celica supra's are different beasts because they're rwd.... And I agree to disagree to me the tc lived up to the name in the united states ... yea it wasn't sold in japan but do you blame toyota the 7th gen celica was stupid expensive for what it was by the end of it's run.
Yeah, to get those numbers they would have lowered the compression to run higher boost among other things. Completely changes the experience. Still would be fun though.

That is why the tC isn't like the Celica. It doesn't have a performance version, it's just a base 2 door with nothing special and weighs too much. Heck you can compare it to a base cobalt and say it's the same, by that logic. The Celica started as RWD, it didn't become FWD till 4th gen and even that had an AWD option, the lower trims were FWD, all through to the 6th gen. The 7th gen was the only one that didn't have AWD or RWD, but it kept the low weight and had that unique 2ZZ engine. tC doesn't fit in that legacy, that's why it wasn't sold there. The 7th gen actually ran for an extra year in Japan, over N.A.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:06 PM   #98
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The Celica is a car for teenage girls.
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