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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 27 13.57%
I might get one if they offer a MT 77 38.69%
No, not me. 95 47.74%
Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2019, 03:20 PM   #1401
maslin
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Shift speed isn't everything. I've driven plenty of well tuned autos, autos with a wet start up clutch instead of a torque converter and DCTs. I'll take the DCT over all of them. It's just a different sensation than anything with an automatic gear box, regardless of how the power gets there.

That being said, I'd take a true manual over everything, that just isn't the way things are going.

Drove around the local lots over the weekend, I'm not sure the salesmen knew what "Supra" meant. Maybe they'll get up here by Spring of 2020
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:23 PM   #1402
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Shift speed isn't everything. I've driven plenty of well tuned autos, autos with a wet start up clutch instead of a torque converter and DCTs. I'll take the DCT over all of them. It's just a different sensation than anything with an automatic gear box, regardless of how the power gets there.

That being said, I'd take a true manual over everything, that just isn't the way things are going.

Drove around the local lots over the weekend, I'm not sure the salesmen knew what "Supra" meant. Maybe they'll get up here by Spring of 2020
It's my impression that traditional automatics are more reliable over time compared to the majority of DCT systems too. Toyota is all about dat reliability.

My local dealer already has Supra merchandise available behind the counter. They all seemed very excited about the car.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:44 PM   #1403
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You are talking about two completely different things wrt handling and speed. I specifically called out agility and nimbleness. That's what you get with the shorter wheelbase cars like the Cayman and Lotus and why the Supra uses the golden ratio formula. This is instantaneous responsiveness or that 'telepathic' sense of handling. You are talking about absolute mechanical grip which although helped by what you were talking about is largely a function of how much rubber you can squeeze under the wheel wells. In this case I'm talking daily driver satisfaction and handling enjoyment, you are talking about track times that most people will never bother seeking. The best test would be doing canyon runs or having Best Motoring do a Toge comparison of both. The point is, the Supra is simply better at rotating based on physics.

Also Nurburgring times are largely based on lots of straight line power and top speed much more so than handling or agility. I'd rather look at a streets of willow comparison or how each handles my morning traffic commute zipping thru traffic.

4-You might like the layout of the C8 more, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the materials and fit and finish. Look closer and you can see plenty of panel gaps, stray stitching and that old GM UI/touch interface screen. I'm pretty sure those plastic buttons still feel like something made by hasbro. It is getting better though.

5-The 86 has been my cargo carrier and hauler the last 6 years. /shrug
We will have to wait and see once the head to heads come out.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:03 PM   #1404
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a non-LE just sold for $48k. surprised to see a dealer this early selling sightly below MSRP.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...0563872509618/
It's spreading nationwide. Akio must be distressed that his beloved "Supra" is tanking out of the gate.

https://tinyurl.com/y6y7oryn

Not to mention BMW that must be wondering whether the JV was worth it now that Supra is sold as distressed merchandise that could rub off on Z4.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:41 PM   #1405
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It's spreading nationwide. Akio must be distressed that his beloved "Supra" is tanking out of the gate.

https://tinyurl.com/y6y7oryn

Not to mention BMW that must be wondering whether the JV was worth it now that Supra is sold as distressed merchandise that could rub off on Z4.
Those are just discounted because they're automatics.




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Old 07-31-2019, 02:59 PM   #1406
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It's spreading nationwide. Akio must be distressed that his beloved "Supra" is tanking out of the gate..
I don't think that shows it "tanked", I think it just shows it's selling at a normal price with no dealer inflation. Most people won't pay a premium for a car so they can't sell all of them at a above sticker price.
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Old 07-31-2019, 03:14 PM   #1407
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Throttle House: 2020 Toyota Supra vs BMW Z4 M40i // Attack Of The Clones

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/thr...e-clones.2044/

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Old 07-31-2019, 03:47 PM   #1408
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I don't think that shows it "tanked", I think it just shows it's selling at a normal price with no dealer inflation. Most people won't pay a premium for a car so they can't sell all of them at a above sticker price.
The link shows 14 of 15 listed on the first page alone are selling about $3K-$4K below MSRP. I don't know the invoice price of Supra but those numbers must be getting close to it. I'm surprised at the discounts, especially the LE's getting the biggest discount of all.

Maybe it's an industry wide slowdown or the "C8 Effect", we won't know until the Toyota month end reports are published tomorrow (FCA, Ford and GM switched to quarterly reporting), but either way, I can't recall another new Toyota model being discounted before hitting showrooms.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:43 PM   #1409
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The link shows 14 of 15 listed on the first page alone are selling about $3K-$4K below MSRP. I don't know the invoice price of Supra but those numbers must be getting close to it. I'm surprised at the discounts, especially the LE's getting the biggest discount of all.
Yeah, but the default sort method is "Best Deals First" - so it is showing all the lowest priced listings first. Change it to "Highest Price First" and suddenly the cheapest on the first page is $78k which is a healthy 20k above MSRP, and the top listing is at $99k. So if I make a link showing those as the top results, I can apparently make the reverse argument...

I bet though if we are fair and find the average of all listings...they are probably at or above MSRP still.
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:20 PM   #1410
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They can list above MSRP all they want, but if there is at least a page of ones discounted well below then none of those above MSRP cars will sell for their asking prices. I think we will find this car to be as popular a seller as the last Supra was... They just need to release the 2020s equivalent of (the original) fast and furious movie starring it before they take it out of production this time.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:01 PM   #1411
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i bet some dealers have "low list price" to start a bidding war. a few guys over on the Houston Supra club FB page picked one over the weekend. some paid MSRP while other paid like $5k over sticker.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:00 PM   #1412
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They can list above MSRP all they want, but if there is at least a page of ones discounted well below then none of those above MSRP cars will sell for their asking prices. I think we will find this car to be as popular a seller as the last Supra was... They just need to release the 2020s equivalent of (the original) fast and furious movie starring it before they take it out of production this time.
The last year of Gen IV U.S. sales were dismal and had a massive MSRP price cut that moved me to buy a TT.

You're right, the 'net changed the car buying experience into a buyer's market. That's why dealer new vehicle gross profits are at historic lows while finance and insurance income plus used, parts and service take up the slack.

It's also telling that most of the 14 below MSRP dealers above are geographic outliers, usually the last to cut prices since they have captive markets vs. multi-point metros that are holding out for now.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:02 PM   #1413
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People buying this for $80k-$100k when the $60k C8 is just around the corner...lol
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:23 PM   #1414
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They can list above MSRP all they want, but if there is at least a page of ones discounted well below then none of those above MSRP cars will sell for their asking prices. I think we will find this car to be as popular a seller as the last Supra was... They just need to release the 2020s equivalent of (the original) fast and furious movie starring it before they take it out of production this time.
To some extent, sure. But that link is to Nationwide listings. I doubt most dealers are going to price match to a deal that's being offered halfway across the country.

Listings within about a 3 hour round trip of me show 1 at MSRP, 1 that says contact for a quote, and one for $68k. The one at MSRP probably goes up when you actually go to buy it (if it doesn't sell first), who knows on the quote, and I bet the $68k dealership doesn't decide to just sell it for $53k because one comes up for that price in a nationwide search of cargurus.com. But I could be wrong. Doesn't matter much to me, as I'm not buying one and couldn't afford it at $53k or $68k or $99k. Nor can I afford a C8.

I also get that the pricing thing may work better for others who don't live in the rural Midwest. After all, there's one listing for Indianapolis, IN...which is the closest to my area at about a 55 minute drive one way. I bet there's one person in Indy and the surrounding hour or two radius that's willing to pay MSRP or more for a Supra.
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