Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

So this little 12V supercharger is going to add at least 30whp to a 2.0L boxer 4 cyl at 7400 with +50-60wtq below the curve? LOL!!!

What does a MAF read other than air volume? WTF are these "compensations" you refer to?

Its a 24v battery, dumping about 130A to the 4000watt motor controller which then spins the charger at 50,000 rpm.

The compensations I refer to are in regards to timing not fuelling, i was worried that i would be running too much timing for the extra load but so far DAM is rock solid at 1 and we are getting NO knock correction.

Based on my comparisons of datalogs we are getting about 40% more flow in the low end, this should equate into a nice bump of torque.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

So what happens when you quickly shut the throttle? Is there a brake employed to stop the turbo? Or does compressor surge happen?

Honestly not much happens. Full throttle to nothing just results in the same thing as stock, the nose dives down a bit.

The engineer behind this new compressor designed it specifically to negate the surge you are talking about.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Stock ecu is capped at 200g/s maf reading.. beyond that the ecu will not increase load any further and (since you will be stuck and an artificially lower load) you will go lean and have too much timing advance as @ft_sjo stated. Stock maf scaling is good for 260g/s but the load cap table is 200g/s. I hit about 160g/s max NA with a couple bolt on partss, so you may or may not run into the cap. I think you should be aware of it though weather you hit it or not.

There is also a load cap table that limits load to a max of 1.3 g/rev in stock form (I hit and hold 1.2g/rev from midrange and up):
RPM Load Limit (g/rev)
800 0.880
1000 0.900
1200 0.890
2000 0.920
2200 0.920
2400 1.070
2500 1.110
3000 1.100
3200 1.300



I think your going to need a tuning solution if you want to do this correctly

It would be interesting to see what visconti has set for these limits.

Im at a really shitty alttitude, a car with visconti and SRT headback made 165whp.

Ive only taken a couple logs but my highest load reading is 1.35 at 4000rpm so far.

[fenton]

Just went out for another datalog and hit 100g/s at 2800rpm, this correlated to a engine load of 1.95

[fenton]

It appears i may have reached the limits of a NA tune, going WOT at VERY low RPM's causes (P0108 - MAP Pressure Circuit High Input).

It seems the map i am running may know that 4.6psi is not what it is suppose to see.

We are working on a resolution for this, the torque down low is really nice with the supercharger on

It appears although visconti has higher limits than factory, greater than 1.6g/rev(1.95 peak) load between 2700 and 3400 may be out of his spec.

[Toma]

Why haven't you brought it by for a Dyno yet??

We have your "before" sheet, lets get the "after".

I got time before 7:30.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Toma

Why haven't you brought it by for a Dyno yet??

We have your "before" sheet, lets get the "after".

I got time before 7:30.

I was just waiting for your call, i'm not sure today will work i'm off at 3.

Assuming i would have to take Ecutek off if we tune with BRZ edit?

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by fenton

It appears i may have reached the limits of a NA tune, going WOT at VERY low RPM's causes (P0108 - MAP Pressure Circuit High Input).

It seems the map i am running may know that 4.6psi is not what it is suppose to see.

We are working on a resolution for this, the torque down low is really nice with the supercharger on

It appears although visconti has higher limits than factory, greater than 1.6g/rev(1.95 peak) load between 2700 and 3400 may be out of his spec.

You just maxed out the stock map sensor... Time for a 3 bar and map scale table adjustment in the rom.

Also, there are internal compensations for load. If you doing the manaul conversion from g/s to g/rev your result will probably be higher than what the ecu sees by a little bit. Though with ecutek you should be able to log g/rev directly from ram.

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

No way in hell you'd need a tune for this. The boost is way too low to require a tune, although you would probably gain more with a tune. About as much as you would gain from a stock NA tune.

So, yeah, like i said... on a stock car with no tune bad things would probably happen... He is WAY over the stock load limit which caps timing and fueling (as in too much timing and not enough fueling).

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by fenton

I was just waiting for your call, i'm not sure today will work i'm off at 3.

Assuming i would have to take Ecutek off if we tune with BRZ edit?

Flash in a stock map with ecutek first and you should be good to go.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by nonicname

why? because you think this is the ebay crap?

There have been numerous attempts to take this concept (which is valid and exciting) to the aftermarket, I have even spent more time than I'd like to admit tinkering with the numbers looking at the efficiency rates of the alternator, storage device (battery) motor windings and impeller design, to see what kind of overall net loss an electric supercharger provides.

it is an overall net loss, don't care how you cut it, as long as you are creating heat or noise there is not 100% efficiency so the power used to overcome the load on the alternator, while it is spread out over a longer time period, you will never be able to drive this system off the alternator and make HP....perpetual motion is a desire not a design.

Having said all of that it would be cool if someone finally packaged a system, and was upfront about the realistic usage of the product (which this company seems to have done.)

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

You just maxed out the stock map sensor... Time for a 3 bar and map scale table adjustment in the rom.

Also, there are internal compensations for load. If you doing the manaul conversion from g/s to g/rev your result will probably be higher than what the ecu sees by a little bit. Though with ecutek you should be able to log g/rev directly from ram.



So, yeah, like i said... on a stock car with no tune bad things would probably happen... He is WAY over the stock load limit which caps timing and fueling (as in too much timing and not enough fueling).

sounds like you need to stop offering advice on how ECU's work.

when you reach or exceed the max load the ECU pulls timing and adds fuel...this isn't 1984, there is enough logic for these cars to stay alive even with some of our resident hack job tuners, and these cars have a very responsive knock sensor and thorough knock retard function built into the logic...


also there is no need for a 3bar map in a car that will only see 1.5 bar of total fluctuation (1st bar is vacuum to atmospheric pressure remember, and this doesn't have the potential to make 7 psi, which the stock map should read fine)

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Flash in a stock map with ecutek first and you should be good to go.

Will my ecutek license stay in the ecu for later?

Thanks,

[SloS14]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

it is an overall net loss, don't care how you cut it, as long as you are creating heat or noise there is not 100% efficiency so the power used to overcome the load on the alternator, while it is spread out over a longer time period, you will never be able to drive this system off the alternator and make HP....perpetual motion is a desire not a design.

We're talking apples and oranges.

Apples = storage of electric energy

Oranges = release of electric energy in order to let us burn more fuel for energy.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

it is an overall net loss, don't care how you cut it, as long as you are creating heat or noise there is not 100% efficiency so the power used to overcome the load on the alternator, while it is spread out over a longer time period, you will never be able to drive this system off the alternator and make HP....perpetual motion is a desire not a design.

No one said anything about it running constantly: there is no perpetual motion here. It uses stored electricity to make brief bursts of power then replenishes that stored electricity in between uses of the device.
Turbos and belt driven blowers are not 100% efficient either. Does that mean no one should use one of those?