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Old 07-28-2018, 01:05 AM   #1
erebuswarrior
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E85 Overrun Pops & Fire on NA

After tuning for quite a few CALID's of the 86 community I now have a better understanding of my version of pops and bangs. You'll want to edit mainly 3 things. Overrun Enrich RPM Delta: This is the amount of RPM drop that needs to happen for Overrun to start. (I use -1, change to whatever RPM you want it to drop by before engaging enrichment) Overrun Initial Injector Enrichment Pulsewidth (I have used anywhere from 0.8 up to 8.8ms) and Base Timing Idle In-Gear Above Speed Threshold (So far in the 176 coolant temp row, -12.97 at 1500RPM to 1800RPM seems to be the right amount of timing for pops/bangs and for those with catless setups, fire.) Make sure you use the fixed xml definition files that are here on the forums for v4.03 OFT tunes. There are some xml files provided by OFT that may not have been fixed yet, that have errors in it, and it will make the In Gear Above Speed Threshold table look way different then it should be.

For those who have issues with throttle delay, either use Pulsewidth's closer to 0.0 or turn it off completely. Long pulse width's like 8.8ms can cause issues with throttle delay especially after lots of pops, but you need to give it some time for fuel trims and the accelerator pedal deadspace to go away. It takes about 50-100 miles of driving in closed loop learning mode before fuel trims settle and throttle dead space goes away. After at least 100 miles of driving, it should be much easier to rev match and throttle delay should not be as much. There will inherently be some delay afterwards and this is because it is using negative timing and a richer mixture at the exhaust cycle. You can't make power with negative timing, only with advanced timing. There are tradeoff's of course, and this is why there's the jerkiness with the traditional B-Timing table pops, since that table directly influences power. In Gear Timing tables luckily don't cause jerkiness on/off throttle. If you can't get used to pressing in the accelerator pedal more for rev matching or the throttle delay is too much, then don't use overrun, just In Gear Timing.

CALID's that aren't compatible are pretty much all Auto trans versions. If you make these changes on a auto trans version, autorev matching when using paddle shifters or gear shifter in manual mode, will NOT work. This is because the auto trans ecm gets confused by the negative timing with In Gear table. Manual users shouldn't be affected by this.

Ecutek users:
I currently have Ecutek RaceRom v9 and using Ecutek's autorev match function on manual with In Gear Above Speed Threshold negative timing, DOES work. So Ecutek users can use the same method on manual trans. I have yet to test on Ecutek with auto trans.
There is only 1 Overrun table in Ecutek, and it is for injector's kicking back on at certain RPM's. There are none of the Overrun tables you see below in Ecutek unfortunately.

Link to, how to fix xml file's.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126180
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Last edited by erebuswarrior; 05-11-2019 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:34 PM   #2
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You figure it out?
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erebuswarrior View Post
I've been doing a lot of research and testing trying to figure out the best way to get pops+fire out the exhaust on NA FRS/BRZ/86's. I know it's pretty easy to do on FI with overrun but I won't be going FI for awhile. So far I've found I like overrun logic pops way better then editing base timing b. That lurching motion is awful and overrun=downshift rev matching pops is perfect lol. I've noticed that changing pulse width influences how it pops. 0.8ms is the easiest to get to pop and is pretty sharp all the time. Going to 1.8ms, to 2.8ms, it can be harder to do on demand but you can get some nice ones when downshift rev matching. I'll link a photo to what I'm currently running. Just looking to see if anyone has ideas on how to elicit fire and maybe get this to work with LC like a faux antilag? I know again in FI you can get 2 step antilag systems that pop and make good flames, but I want to see how close we can get to that on NA. Hoping this will be purely productive, I get there's the whole "why do that, why do this" side of the fence, and my goal isn't to argue about pops vs no pops. This isn't just for me, it's to help the BRZ/FRS/86 community in general for those who are interested in this kind of tune add on.

UPDATE 1:
So I've been spending time messing around with what works and doesn't work. If anyone checks back on this thread just know I'm still working on figuring it out since I can't find anyone to spill the beans lol. The below values are no longer anywhere near what I'm using now to achieve decent flames, these are the tables I've been messing with however just different values. Next I'll be figuring out what fueling tables to changed that will only hopefully affect fueling during overrun. I'll update this thread once I've figured it out.
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You figure it out?

I'm interested if this ended up working as well. Although I already had my fun with the pops and bangs tune edits on 93 and wouldn't put it on e85, I'm very interested on whether or not it worked. Also e85 is worse mpg as it is, I wonder how much of a hit this added as well.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erebuswarrior View Post
I've actually gotten it figured out and found the sweet spots. MPG isn't that different. maybe 1/4 a gallon of MPG difference at max? It's pretty much indiscernible. Throwing much larger flames on 91/93 then E85 of course. No stupid jerkiness with overrun pops that you would get with just editing B Timing Table. I think on 91/93, catless headers, catless aftermarket, or catted OEM front pipe, getting about 2-4 foot flames or so. E85 is about half that, sometimes 3.
Care to update post with maps?
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:56 PM   #5
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Overrun always causes rev hang or sometimes even auto rev matching type effect when I try it..

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Old 03-19-2019, 10:59 PM   #6
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Post has been updated everyone. Sorry it took so long to kinda finalize this, but I didn't want to post my finding until I had tuned enough different CALID's to see what works and what doesn't.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erebuswarrior View Post
Post has been updated everyone. Sorry it took so long to kinda finalize this, but I didn't want to post my finding until I had tuned enough different CALID's to see what works and what doesn't.

If you want to incorporste the tables defined in romraider in ecutek tune.


Start with stock rom ( one without lc\ffs patch)
Edit this stock rom with romraider to add the undefined changes
Save editied rom then open it with ecutek
Then make any other changes you need then add ecutek racerom if needed


If you dont want to add reaceom you can just use a rom with patches, but make sure its a narive rom and not calid hacked. The calid hacks or lc\ffs patch will conduse ecutek and also stop you lading racerom patch
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:01 PM   #8
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Can confirm this works better than the jerky tune.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erebuswarrior View Post
Post has been updated everyone. Sorry it took so long to kinda finalize this, but I didn't want to post my finding until I had tuned enough different CALID's to see what works and what doesn't.
If you want even more control, you can rescale that table to get more rpm's
It's basicly grouping all of the same values in to one table to gain 3 more tables.


(These are settings for a daily driver, just some light added burble)
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:53 PM   #10
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Was thinking about trying that a long time ago, but never got around to testing it on my own BRZ so I never did that for anyone else. I don't use anyone I tune's twins as guinea pigs so I test on mine first. I'm on Ecutek now, I might give this a try. Didn't want to risk bricking my ECU when I first started with In Gear pops testing over a year ago, so I never tried rescaling stuff like that.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:18 AM   #11
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After about a week of using this revised method, I will not be modifying the B timing any longer. The overruns posted work fantastic for a nice burble.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:09 PM   #12
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Pops were more aggressive having ran this revised tune.

And my buddy caught me popping flames on his dashcam.

https://youtu.be/ztTL9olO9oQ
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:52 AM   #13
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Funfact. 2nd gear high RPM heavy throttle. Release throttle and then immediately tap it for ultimate rapidfire.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:49 PM   #14
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I just want to backfire on upshifts when banging gears. my buddies brz does it and he only has base b at -10..... I tuned my car the same way and it doesn't happen for me. I dont understand lol. we have the same exhaust mods as well
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