valve spring issue?

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The Official Notice is out today in the NTSC bulletin. There are some interesting documents in the bulletin, including this one listing that 25,000 FRS are impacted by the recall, and that if you are "uncomfortable" driving your car until it is repaired you can get a rental car for $35 per day.

It also says it covers vehicles from Late 02/2012 to Early 07/2013.

That matches the Subaru dates in this document.

What does it mean that you can get a rental car for $35.00 a day? Does that mean that Toyota will give you $35 a day to rent a car? Or is Toyota willing to take $35 a day from you to rent a car from them?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

What does it mean that you can get a rental car for $35.00 a day? Does that mean that Toyota will give you $35 a day to rent a car? Or is Toyota willing to take $35 a day from you to rent a car from them?

You pay them $35/day. That is a good price for a rental car though.

[ermax]

This doc is interesting:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...8V772-0340.pdf


"From the investigation of the collected engine, it was estimated that the valve spring broke, fell off and the valve made contact with the piston, causing a rough idling and an abnormal noise."


...........


"As a result, it was found that due to the improper design of the valve train, stress generated exceeded the design condition."


The choice of the words "valve train" as opposed to "spring" is interesting. They made the wire diameter thicker (increased the minimum thickness tolerance to be spesific) in May 2013 but in later years they also made the valves longer, changed the rockers and rocker pivots. I wonder if these later changes were an attempt to reduce stress on the springs more so than to fix the rocker ejection problems we've read about on the forums.

[Rampage]

They are saying this is a voluntary recall. I wonder if a person does not bring their car in for the repairs when the parts become available then later suffers a spring failure that causes catastrophic damage like a bent valve, damaged piston, damaged valve seat or broken rocker arm then will Subaru pay for the repair of all the damage?

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They are saying this is a voluntary recall. I wonder if a person does not bring their car in for the repairs when the parts become available then later suffers a spring failure that causes catastrophic damage like a bent valve, damaged piston, damaged valve seat or broken rocker arm then will Subaru pay for the repair of all the damage?

if it is outside of the normal warranty, I would not expect them to cover it.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by ermax

You pay them $35/day. That is a good price for a rental car though.

When I brought a Honda in for the Takata airbag recall, they provided me a loaner (Accord Sport) free of charge for the nearly 2 months that it took for them to get the parts and perform the work... it's unfortunate that Subaru would expect owners to pay for a rental for this recall.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

What does it mean that you can get a rental car for $35.00 a day? Does that mean that Toyota will give you $35 a day to rent a car? Or is Toyota willing to take $35 a day from you to rent a car from them?

Originally Posted by ermax

You pay them $35/day. That is a good price for a rental car though.

@ermax nailed it, or at least the way I read it. I didn't notice if Subaru was doing similar, but I didn't read theirs that closely. Obviously this is being handled by them separately even though Subaru may be reimbursing Toyota for the trouble.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They are saying this is a voluntary recall?

Voluntary recall usually refers to it being manufacturer initiated rather than NTSC mandated I believe.

All recalls are 'voluntary' from the consumer prospective. You can't be forced to bring the car (or other product) in.

In terms of long-term impact, Subaru/Toyota would have a hard time proving that the owner 1) knew about the recall and 2) chose not to bring it in for repair before the failure. I'm guessing if it can be shown that that spring failed, and the car was in the group, they would most likely cover it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by NCtoBRZ

When I brought a Honda in for the Takata airbag recall, they provided me a loaner (Accord Sport) free of charge for the nearly 2 months that it took for them to get the parts and perform the work... it's unfortunate that Subaru would expect owners to pay for a rental for this recall.

That was a much more "severe" impact and probability of incidence/liability so I'm not surprised there was a difference in response.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Gunman

if it is outside of the normal warranty, I would not expect them to cover it.

Pretty much ALL the affected cars are outside the warranty period already as the power train warranty is 5 Years. Being that it is an admitted design and material defect. I am inclined to think that they would have to fix it and anything else that broke in the engine because of it but I also know if they could fight it, they would.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Voluntary recall usually refers to it being manufacturer initiated rather than NTSC mandated I believe.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That was a much more "severe" impact and probability of incidence/liability so I'm not surprised there was a difference in response.

Regardless of the "severity of impact", I don't find it to be reasonable to expect owners to pay for a rental for an untold amount of time while the dealership has their car for a recall. It would be different if it was a quick in/out type of recall like reflashing an ECU that can be completed in a matter of minutes. In any case, if an owner were to push back I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru might waive the rental fee.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by NCtoBRZ

Regardless of the "severity of impact", I don't find it to be reasonable to expect owners to pay for a rental for an untold amount of time while the dealership has their car for a recall. It would be different if it was a quick in/out type of recall like reflashing an ECU that can be completed in a matter of minutes. In any case, if an owner were to push back I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru might waive the rental fee.

The blurb about the $35 rental was for those that are nervous about driving the car BEFORE the repair. During the repair they may actually provide one for free.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ermax

The blurb about the $35 rental was for those that are nervous about driving the car BEFORE the repair. During the repair they may actually provide one for free.

@NCtoBRZ that is the way I was reading it as well.

[Tcoat]

The "Blurb" is a part of instructions to the DEALER on how to deal with the recall. It is NOT a consumer document.
Need to read the whole thing in that context.


Loaner Vehicle Reimbursement Procedure




For customers who have experienced the condition or are uncomfortable driving their vehicle while Toyota prepares the remedy, a loaner vehicle or alternative transportation through Toyota Rent-A-Car can be claimed for $35 per day. Toyota is currently preparing the rental vehicle op codes. The Dealer Letter will be updated when these op codes are available, please hold claim filing until that time.




NOTE: Rental invoice MUST be attached to all rental claims. These claims may be subject to debit if rental invoice is not attached.





These are instructions on how the DEALER get's reimbursed from Toyota for any vehicles they loan or rent at no charge to customers not how much customers will be charged.
Remember that the dealers are not part of Toyota as a corporation they are simply their customers that buy and then resell the product.


I will go away again now.