Baby NSX / Honda S2000 Successor

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Well, it could be argued that the Prius has aged well.
But in any case, even your statement is true, it does not follow that 10 years from now that would still be the case. Progress...

Personally, I love the idea of a non-hybrid rwd version and a hybrid awd version with electric motors up front. I'm a fan of simplicity and rwd and saving a few bucks, so I know which one I would get.

Explain the numerous failures of batteries on the second gen Prius. It's not the mileage that will affect the longevity, but time it self. Batteries degenerate overtime, whether they're lead-acid or lithium ion. Extreme temperatures don't help either. Not to mention the less a battery is used (or charged to full charge), the more the storage capacity degenerates.

As an electrical engineer I'm reminded everyday that electric cars are far from the future and that the current hybrid tech isn't meant to last as long as a car with a regular combustion engine setup. It's not the recharge times that any of you should be worried about, but the longevity and potential repair costs that electric cars and hybrid systems can have.

It will be interesting to see what they do next with batteries or the use of supercapacitors. Hopefully graphene will be less snake oil and more olive oil.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Fake titties may be bigger too.. but they're still fake titties. I guess I just like NA.

I am still surprised at how many people are confused that some folks just don't like FI... in their sports cars.

I'd like a Turbo-Diesel truck. I'd even like a turbo/hybrid commuter but sports cars.. I like good ol' fashioned NA.

Hey, fake tits are still tits, and everybody loves tits. Men, women, babies, gay, straight. It don't matter. Tits rock. These are fake, would you turn them down? Man I love tits. So squishy and smooth. What were we talking about again?

I'll be in my bunk.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Explain the numerous failures of batteries on the second gen Prius. It's not the mileage that will affect the longevity, but time it self. Batteries degenerate overtime, whether they're lead-acid or lithium ion. Extreme temperatures don't help either. Not to mention the less a battery is used (or charged to full charge), the more the storage capacity degenerates.

Yes, batteries degrade over time. But NiMH batteries are relatively durable and there are plenty of 10 year-old Prii still kicking.

NiMH batteries *don't* like to be fully charged, that reduces life. They like to be kept between ~40% and ~80% SOC for maximum life, and that's where the Prius' control system keeps the battery pack.

Lithium batteries may have more of a shelf life issue. The ones I am familiar with did, anyway...

As an electrical engineer I'm reminded everyday that electric cars are far from the future

Right, they are the present :P

and that the current hybrid tech isn't meant to last as long as a car with a regular combustion engine setup. It's not the recharge times that any of you should be worried about, but the longevity and potential repair costs that electric cars and hybrid systems can have.

The money saved over 10 years can easily offset the cost of a ~$3k battery pack replacement.

It will be interesting to see what they do next with batteries or the use of supercapacitors. Hopefully graphene will be less snake oil and more olive oil.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to future developments.

FWIW, I'm an aerospace engineer but I spent many years at an electric vehicle company. Electric vehicles have their drawbacks, but for commute duty they are brilliant. I would save $25-$50/week commuting electrically vs. my S2000 or SV650 (70 mile round trip). And it is pretty cool to *never* have to stop at a gas station.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Yes, batteries degrade over time. But NiMH batteries are relatively durable and there are plenty of 10 year-old Prii still kicking.

NiMH batteries *don't* like to be fully charged, that reduces life. They like to be kept between ~40% and ~80% SOC for maximum life, and that's where the Prius' control system keeps the battery pack.

Lithium batteries may have more of a shelf life issue. The ones I am familiar with did, anyway...

Right, they are the present :P

The money saved over 10 years can easily offset the cost of a ~$3k battery pack replacement.


Yeah, I'm looking forward to future developments.

FWIW, I'm an aerospace engineer but I spent many years at an electric vehicle company. Electric vehicles have their drawbacks, but for commute duty they are brilliant. I would save $25-$50/week commuting electrically vs. my S2000 or SV650 (70 mile round trip). And it is pretty cool to *never* have to stop at a gas station.

Right, so we can agree hydrogen is the answer?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Right, so we can agree hydrogen is the answer?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

As for RWD being "too easy".......... wat? compared to what exactly?

Context of racing only and compared to FWD. I've raced both. Racing RWD at the limit is easier and less frightening then doing so in a properly setup FWD car (aka race specific setup). RWD requires much less "faith and commitment".

If you would like to discuss this topic more please PM me or start a new thread.. I think we've detoured this one enough.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

"Base model will be a 2.0T, RWD only, with 6MT. 300-330 hp in the base car....

This is the baby NSX, estimated base price of about $55K with the hybrid running to high $70K or low $80K. In the big scheme, it's the "S2000 replacement" in terms of where it fits on the sportscar hierarchy.

So I was reading that going yeah 2.0T, RWD, 330hp HP sounds good and got to the $55k USD and thought really $25k more than a BRZ Limited. Are they high? This thing better be tipping the scales at Miata type weights and made out of exotic materials for that kind of money. Even then I don't see the base model selling at all. Subaru could drop a turbo on the BRZ STI and sell it for $40k fully optioned out and still outsell this S2000 base model successor.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

So I was reading that going yeah 2.0T, RWD, 330hp HP sounds good and got to the $55k USD and thought really $25k more than a BRZ Limited. Are they high? This thing better be tipping the scales at Miata type weights and made out of exotic materials for that kind of money. Even then I don't see the base model selling at all. Subaru could drop a turbo on the BRZ STI and sell it for $40k fully optioned out and still outsell this S2000 base model successor.

It's also in Porsche territory.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

So I was reading that going yeah 2.0T, RWD, 330hp HP sounds good and got to the $55k USD and thought really $25k more than a BRZ Limited. Are they high? This thing better be tipping the scales at Miata type weights and made out of exotic materials for that kind of money. Even then I don't see the base model selling at all. Subaru could drop a turbo on the BRZ STI and sell it for $40k fully optioned out and still outsell this S2000 base model successor.

Yeah, it is pricey... but inflation is real and the S2K wasn't exactly cheap to begin with. The same sort of thing would happen with Mazda if they brought out an RX7 successor. Hell, it's very possible this could be better than the Supra successor Toyota is working on in all but power output.

Remember, it's mid-engined... that right there is the exotic factor. I mean, the Alfa 4C is about that price and although made of exotic materials, it uses struts in the rear (compromise) and has only about 240hp (if I remember correctly). Knowing the handling prowess of the S2000 and NSX, this baby NSX is likely to have superb suspension design and handling feel/response... and 330hp stock with a turbo, leaving room for aftermarket tuning, makes a strong case for it against something like a Cayman for those more performance-focused/less brand-focused... and of course, reliability and maintenance costs should be considered too.

Then again, there may be a 4 cylinder turbo Cayman out around that time too... likely to be more expensive though...

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

It's also in Porsche territory.

What if Honda makes a lighter, better performing, more reliable Cayman?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

What if Honda makes a lighter, better performing, more reliable Cayman?

It would have a Honda badge and not attract Cayman buyers. People who buy Caymans are buying the Porsche badge and the leather goodies on the inside, not the car.

I'm not terribly happy about the turbo either, unless they do an electric turbo like the next gen BMWs. Turbo lag is real.

[Packofcrows]

Still wouldnt trade my twin for one. I like the look, but wont match the IDX. I hope its a 2+2 as well.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV2Rg3zH5EY"]Nissan IDx NISMO Concept - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube[/ame]

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

What if Honda makes a lighter, better performing, more reliable Cayman?

I would take the Honda... But I'm not spending that much on a car anytime soon.
I'm also not the typical Porsche buyer.

[DAEMANO]

The IDX has been confirmed to be shelved. Sorreh.