Why do people do wild swaps(RB, LS1), when u can just buy a Porsche, Ferrari, etc?

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by foodman

Tracking would be the same price. Gas, entrance..same price. Tires? Same or similar after you stick fatter tires on the Twin.

Damage at the track... Same/similar price... Tires..same. Fenders..maybe a tad more on the C7. Suspension bits.. Probably same. Other parts.. same. We're talking domestic; not German car. Fluids..same since they're both V8. Total crash? Same price...$50k'ish totaled LSx FRS vs $50k'ish C7.


Now...DD, Street...your argument is actually against you. Total your LSx FRS on the way to McDonald's...insurance will only cover the FRS's $25k value and the rest you spent on the swap and any other parts goes down the drain. Total your C7, insurance company will cover the entire car and the entire $50k

Unfortunately i recently inherited a flood salvage low mile c5.

My initial thoughts were track car.

After going over the operating costs and $ necessary to make it better than where my (rotorex, ap kit, kwv3, etc) frs is at i decided to make the vette the gf summer mobile.

The operating cost difference on track over any real span of time was basically going to cover the cost of a built shortblock and installing at home for the frs.

[zooki]

[QUOTE=cf6mech;1842343]I would like to see any vette or 911 in any form, race car etc. beat this guy up this hill.....no big displacement engine involved...its a Gixer engine in that thing, meaning comparisons and bold statements are relative./QUOTE]

How about a Peugot? LOL

[mid_life_crisis]

This looks like a good place to ask a what if question.
Suppose you want to keep the feel of the car as close to factory as possible while getting at least 300 horsepower.
To me this means high revving, normally aspirated and disturb the weight balance as little as possible while gaining the hp.
What engine do you go with? I`m thinking an aluminum V6, but who makes the best one that`ll rev nice and high and sound like it likes it?

[foodman]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

This looks like a good place to ask a what if question.
Suppose you want to keep the feel of the car as close to factory as possible while getting at least 300 horsepower.
To me this means high revving, normally aspirated and disturb the weight balance as little as possible while gaining the hp.
What engine do you go with? I`m thinking an aluminum V6, but who makes the best one that`ll rev nice and high and sound like it likes it?

I think this would be impossible, especially with an FA. It'd be a crazy cammed, ported, itb, tuning and idle and drivability problems, high comp reliability problems..hardly DDable.

Hmmm.... Maybe a nice honda engine? They're the only ones proven to get high hp, high rev, reliable.

300hp is honestly quite high for NA and lightweight and high rev ...LS1 sounds like the best choice from what I've gathered regarding NA, stock, reliable, etc...only thing missing is the high rev tho.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

This looks like a good place to ask a what if question.
Suppose you want to keep the feel of the car as close to factory as possible while getting at least 300 horsepower.
To me this means high revving, normally aspirated and disturb the weight balance as little as possible while gaining the hp.
What engine do you go with? I`m thinking an aluminum V6, but who makes the best one that`ll rev nice and high and sound like it likes it?

V6's have inherent issues (splayed center journals for starters) not to mention any good V6 making anywhere near that power is DOHC. This is going to move the COG up significantly over stock and probably over an LSx swap because the LS motors are pushrod, keeping them compact.


That much power in as close to factory as possible? Go forced induction on the stock engine.

[cdrazic93]

Anyone crazy enough to get their hands on an S85? Fully dressed it's about 240kg, probably able to mount behind the axle, and you can find some for cheap on M5board if you're willing to tear them down.

[Food]

As much as I love the idea of an LSx swap now (especially Vorshlag's/cf6mech's build and its' super high quality engineering/design and how they go about doing it) and really believe it's the best choice for the simplest, most reliable and smartest (best bang for the buck) engine swaps, I still kinda think just buying another car might be a better alternative.

Meaning...after all said and done: an Frs ($20k) and complete swap with all subsystems (another $20k at least) would run at least $40k. And that doesn't get you anything else. You'll have to spend much more on proper wheels and tires (not even an RB kit), suspension, aero, a stronger rear end and half shaft, etc etc. Then even after all that (which would be at least an additional $10-20k), there is still a lot of work to do to make it handle good around the track and most likely won't be as good as some other car around a track. Basically, you'll be in the hole $50-60k minimum for an LSx FRS with questionable track and handling abilities.

Or, you can sell the FRS and just buy a used Cayman or even an older used 911 (996 I believe is in the affordable price range yes?) for $20-30k, or even up to $40 or $50k if you want to spend bit more (but for non-rich people, I think 20-30k is realistic/feasible). I am not knowledgable with Porsches, all their past models, which are the best buys and best years, etc, so I am no expert. I've only read a little bit here and there, and watched a few videos on them. But, what I gather is that this would be a good route and option (instead of doing an LSx swap). ....get a used Cayman or 996 gets you one of the (if not THE) best handling track cars ever built! You get a nice lightweight chassis with a 300hp engine, some of the best balanced handling cars ever conceived and only for $20-30k! That's the price of an LSx swap in itself; or, $20-30k cheaper than a said n done LSx FRS! Not to mention Everything on the car will be native and also well built with the highest of quality standards. The suspension, drivetrain, wheels, tires, brakes, chassis, balance, weight, etc etc etc are all built around and with the engine and overall car and chassis. Additionally, you can smog it and register it with no problems in Cali (good luck with this with an LSx swap lol).

It's easy as selling the FT, then buying a used Porsche, then having fun with it right away from the first day owning it, you can even go to a track the first day and it'll handle super well out the box ...vs...frs, do the swap, figuring out any and many problems that arise, going to the track and trying to dial in the suspension and grip for the LSx's massive power, and maybe able to have fun with it after a month or 2 of working out all the engine and suspension kinks. Anyways...I think you get my point.

I'm sure the 450hp LSx FRS will be faster than a Cayman or 996...but only in a straight line on a drag strip I bet. A Cayman or old 911 will for sure spank an LSx FRS around a track. 300hp is plenty...especially in a well engineered porsche.

Yes..I'm sure the Cayman or 996 will be expensive to maintain...but remember, you still have that extra $20k in your pocket from going for the Porsche instead of doing an LSx FRS project

Don't get me wrong though...I'm still really loving that LSx swap idea and will follow that Vorshlag build.

....but, for me, if I ever have that kind of extra money to spend (for a big swap mod or a better car)...I'd just sell the FT and get a used Cayman or older 911(996) and be happy

....anyone else agree and think the same? (..in that, getting a used Cayman/911/996 instead of doing a $25k LSx swap, is a good/better choice)?

[raul]

@Food

I don't get the point of this thread. I've met exactly 0 people who track the car or engage in any kind of serious motorsport do a "big" engine swap on the car. The two most popular swaps that I know of are the SuperGT BRZ with an EJ series swap, and the drag BRZ by Ali Afshar with an H6 swap, which aren't "big" engines. You're assuming that these cars you see with LSx and 2JZ engine swaps are being tracked for some reason, and you're dead wrong about that. They're all street and drag cars.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by raul

@Food

I don't get the point of this thread. I've met exactly 0 people who track the car or engage in any kind of serious motorsport do a "big" engine swap on the car. The two most popular swaps that I know of are the SuperGT BRZ with an EJ series swap, and the drag BRZ by Ali Afshar with an H6 swap, which aren't "big" engines. You're assuming that these cars you see with LSx and 2JZ engine swaps are being tracked for some reason, and you're dead wrong about that. They're all street and drag cars.

Yah nobody does that,....its silly....its all about bragging rights and straight line speed.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuILPHgBUNY"]V8 Miata racing at Infineon - YouTube[/ame]

[Food]

Again...Can't wait to see the progress of your car cf6mech.

I guess...I just wish a quality full LSx swap could be a bit cheaper and more attainable...like $10-15k for the entire thing attainable ...maybe so I guess..with a junker LS1 and tranny (but a Magnum XL ain't gonna be easy to find used and cheap lol)

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by Food

Again...Can't wait to see the progress of your car cf6mech.

I guess...I just wish a quality full LSx swap could be a bit cheaper and more attainable...like $10-15k for the entire thing attainable ...maybe so I guess..with a junker LS1 and tranny (but a Magnum XL ain't gonna be easy to find used and cheap lol)

I'm the dummy who takes the hit $$ wise so in the future someone can buy a high mileage cheap twin used, find a used LSX and used Magnum XL ( which is an option tranny to replace the crap Chinese made Getrags installed in Mustangs , so they will be available out there used in time) and do this swap way cheaper than my costs. Just saying........But then again the shop working on my car gets calls daily wanting to know when the kit will be available to do it now.

[White64Goat]

I'll just leave this here..............

http://instagram.com/p/lgcW8HDIjY/

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Nice thread. I too am interested in various engine swaps for the 86; though I like keeping my car "pure" and as mod-free and stock as possible (only modding things that matter most - suspension, tires, brakes, weight). I also love Porsches (who doesn't )

I think the two biggest things you need to consider in the real-world if actually doing or owning one of these is maintanence and replacement parts and also legality. Primarily - what if the engine, transmission or other high expense part breaks/blows.

LSx 86:
Pros - if the engine blows, it is only $1-2k for a junkyard LS1 or $6k for a brand new crate LS3 (which is still very cheap compared to a German motor).
Cons - if you live in California, it will be extremely difficult (maybe impossible) getting it BAR approved, passed and being smog legal. Rendering doing an LSx swap 86 useless and NOT possible for a California DD and can only be used as a track toy.

Cayman:
Pros - no need to worry about BAR/smog obviously since it's factory and stock. If it can smoke a previous base 911's on the track and better than previous GT3s with an LSD and with very little suspension/engine mods (ie: only upgrading simple coilovers, a tune, exh, etc), then I am sure it'll smoke a garage LSx 86 build.
Cons - if you blow the engine, you are fcked. 3 options if this happens - Junkyard engine will be $6-8k (if you're lucky to find one in good condition and for cheap), rebuild will be $10-18k, or a crate engine will be around $25k.


If it was me...I'd get the Cayman on CPO warranty. Simply and mainly because it would be totally street-legal and I could actually drive it on public streets daily. LSx 86 would basically be a giant, expensive, $50k go-kart in California..and is totally not possible to be a DD.

I am sure these reasons deterred others from pursuing this project. Does California authorities give you a difficult time if the car is registered in a neighboring state such as Nevada, Arizona, or Oregon?

[DoctorNick]

I thought motor swaps were legal in Cali as long as the motor was from the same MY as the car or newer and maintained all the emission controls (cats, charcoal canister, tune).