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Old 07-18-2019, 01:37 AM   #29
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In car video per the request of @rice_classic





At around 5:30 in the video @rice_classic passes me around the outside.This is a very impressive difference in performance and it begs the question; how is that possible? The amount of grip required to do that is immense considering that I ended up with the best lap time either of us have put down during this race. @rice_classic had sticker 225/40/17 Hoosier A7s while my car had 245/40/17Hoosier R7s that are over half a season old. Unfortunately, the 245/40/17 size that I have is not the optimal size for the required 7" wide wheels that we use. The 225/40/17 provides pretty much the same amount of contact patch on a 7" wheel and have a shorter sidewall that results in better gearing. It also didn't help that my tires required 10 minutes to become usable (due to age).
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:26 AM   #30
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His turn radius was significantly longer than yours, allowing him to carry more speed. Both your entrance and exit to the turn before the pass were pinched.
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:18 PM   #31
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Not an expert here, but trying to learn how to extract that little extra speed. So what I see is that after turn-in you get on the gas too early, resulting in having to get off the gas and back on it again. Avoid that, you are transfering weight back and forth, doesnt help you go faster. Everytime you got on the gas and then had to go back out of it, its a mistake, you got on it too hard, or too early. On the turn he passed you its a prime exemple, he was not really gaining on you, more like side by side, the moment you had to lift he went by, my guess is that he did not lift.

Driving style aside, Im pretty sure A7s have more grip than R7s. I know its for classing purposes, but I dont think putting 245 R7s on 7" wheels is doing you any favours. I think you would be faster on a smaller tire and would also get it into working temperature faster.

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Old 07-19-2019, 02:46 AM   #32
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His turn radius was significantly longer than yours, allowing him to carry more speed. Both your entrance and exit to the turn before the pass were pinched.

Generally, going around the outside does not allow for increased corning speed. It's debatable if there's any speed to be gained from taking the outside line without being able to get down to the apex. That's what makes this pass so impressive. Usually, in these situations I can enter on the inside and clear the car on the outside on exit while tracking out, but he managed to get over lap so I had to pinch off the exit as well. I could have made it more difficult to for him, but there's no point with the disparity in grip that was occurring. Even when I have a significant corning speed advantage, compared to say a T4 RX-8, it's not enough to pass around the outside. Car control is more important than car placement for outright lap time. The problem is that driving off-line is not sustainable because it will eventually result in too much heat in the tires.


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Not an expert here, but trying to learn how to extract that little extra speed. So what I see is that after turn-in you get on the gas too early, resulting in having to get off the gas and back on it again. Avoid that, you are transfering weight back and forth, doesnt help you go faster. Everytime you got on the gas and then had to go back out of it, its a mistake, you got on it too hard, or too early. On the turn he passed you its a prime exemple, he was not really gaining on you, more like side by side, the moment you had to lift he went by, my guess is that he did not lift.

Driving style aside, Im pretty sure A7s have more grip than R7s. I know its for classing purposes, but I dont think putting 245 R7s on 7" wheels is doing you any favours. I think you would be faster on a smaller tire and would also get it into working temperature faster.

This is mostly accurate. I have to get on the gas early, otherwise I'm a sitting duck. I also need to get on the gas as hard as possible for the same reason. It's a learning process where I start by trying to get on the gas as early as possible and then adjust to eliminate the lift after accel. Obviously, I haven't mastered it yet. In many cases, I could have stayed on the throttle and rode it out instead of lifting, but I frequently don't have the cajones to do that in many situations. While I was being passed lifting was the only option, I had expected to be able to track out and continue applying throttle but he was already there.



I need to figure out how to get the car to support being on throttle earlier. @rice_classic has the same goal. We will both be experimenting with running the stock rear sway bar. If that doesn't work, then I will attempt using a bit of rear toe-in. Currently, I run zero toe-in front and rear.



I intend to switch to the 225/40/17 A7s next season. I would like to buy a set now, but my budget only allowed for one set of tires this season. I'm excited with the prospect because I think it will allow me to go faster than the current lap record and get to the point where we need to be to make a good showing at the 2020 Runnoffs. @rice_classic likes to sandbag when he's in front so he backed off. I'm fairly certain he can drop some time as well.
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Old 07-19-2019, 06:42 AM   #33
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Too me it looked like he just drove in a little deep compromising his entry but in turn compromised your exit. Kind of hard to tell in this video.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:32 AM   #34
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Car control is more important than car placement for outright lap time.
This is counter to every piece of professional driving advice I've ever heard or read. I know where you're coming from, being over the limit and off line is usually faster than being under the limit and on the right line but you've gotta do it all correctly or you're leaving a lot on the table.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:32 PM   #35
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I certainly agree that the fastest time will be achieved by driving at the limit and taking the best line. The penalty for driving off the line is less severe than the penalty for not driving at the limit.



Anyway, the line isn't a factor during this pass. We both had a compromised line. I had the choice to go with the inside or the outside. The inside is going to turn out better most of the time. Extenuating circumstances allowed this pass to happen.
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:03 PM   #36
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@Totemo_Hayai Thanks for putting up the video buddy. Here's mine - the pass happens at 5:25.



It was ALL grip.

No bones about it. If you and I were on the same tire - that pass would not have happened. We've entered that corner side by side before in the past and the inside car is almost always the victor - the outside pass between T4 and T5 is rare especially from behind and off line. If you watch my start - you can see I over take 2 E30s in that corner.

The only way that could have physically occurred was with a difference in grip. I entered that corner 5mph faster than I had at anytime before that. This was definitely a showcase in the difference between older R7s that weren't up to temp and Sticker A7s.

Strat1caster - I'm picking up what your puttin' down! In this case, this was grip (and car control). Totemo had the placement and by all intents and purposes - owned that corner. I had 5mph more grip and used it to drive around him while off line. What's funny is that while I was passing him the voice in head was like: "This isn't really happening is it?!"



Goddamn I love racing! Unfortunately, this last weekend I had a 6 car battle for 2nd place in a field of 17 and my SD card crapped out so I don't have video. Totemo - can you upload your video from this last weekend? I want to watch us split that car into 3b - I also think others would appreciate it. I just cannot believe how much fun I'm having with this racecar - everyone should be doing this!
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:43 PM   #37
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I love the E30 sandwich around the 3:45 mark.
Did the E30 touch your car? Did you let off you let him move forward before the turn?
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:10 PM   #38
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I love the E30 sandwich around the 3:45 mark.
Did the E30 touch your car? Did you let off you let him move forward before the turn?
At track out, I lifted to avoid contact. Look closely at the rear of the E30 - he has an Orange Square on the back which in our Conference that indicates he's a novice driver which I was acutely aware of. He was driving pretty well though but I didn't have enough of a run out of the corner and we all want to "drive it back on the trailer".
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:45 AM   #39
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Goddamn I love racing! Unfortunately, this last weekend I had a 6 car battle for 2nd place in a field of 17 and my SD card crapped out so I don't have video. Totemo - can you upload your video from this last weekend? I want to watch us split that car into 3b - I also think others would appreciate it. I just cannot believe how much fun I'm having with this racecar - everyone should be doing this!

Here it is:


I need to learn how to use a GoPro now, the exposure on my video is awful. At least I figured out how to use RaceRender. With the change to a stock rear sway bar I'm now able to get on the gas early and stay on. Thanks to a set of 235/40/17 BFG R1s that rice_classic obtained I was able to be somewhat competitive. There's still a grip deficit and I have some other problems like brake fade that prevent me from running the same times through the race. My car doesn't have brake ducts yet, more on that later. I also freaked myself out by setting a water temp alarm for 220F so I unnecessarily was popping out of the draft to reduce water temps.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:52 AM   #40
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Nice video!

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Originally Posted by Totemo_Hayai View Post

I need to learn how to use a GoPro now, the exposure on my video is awful.
Inside the car is dark and outside the car is bright and the camera does not have the range to expose both at once.

You could either mount the camera to the windshield behind the rear view mirror (like a dashcam) or manually set the exposure to a lower value so the track is exposed properly (but the car's interior will be black/dark)
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Old 08-01-2019, 01:08 AM   #41
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Nice video!


Inside the car is dark and outside the car is bright and the camera does not have the range to expose both at once.

You could either mount the camera to the windshield behind the rear view mirror (like a dashcam) or manually set the exposure to a lower value so the track is exposed properly (but the car's interior will be black/dark)

Thanks! I'll plan on adjusting the exposure to expose the track properly, a clear picture of the car's interior doesn't matter much.


Here's a video from Saturday on the same weekend. Exposure is still messed up but the racing is pretty good.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:32 AM   #42
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Thanks! I'll plan on adjusting the exposure to expose the track properly, a clear picture of the car's interior doesn't matter much.


Here's a video from Saturday on the same weekend. Exposure is still messed up but the racing is pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogdJsGIMoo
Turn on spot metering, and position the camera slightly higher, and you'll be good!

If you want to capture footwork and shifting/steering, get a second dedicated camera for in-car only
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