To get the Performance Package or Not? Thread

[Barefootdan]

I'll likely be placing an order for a 17 limited in white with performance package this week. I was just curious if anyone believes that the Sach's dampers will stiffen the ride quality?

[mjanmohammad]

Originally Posted by Barefootdan

I'll likely be placing an order for a 17 limited in white with performance package this week. I was just curious if anyone believes that the Sach's dampers will stiffen the ride quality?

This is the same question I have. I'm still on the fence about ordering it

[Barefootdan]

Originally Posted by mjanmohammad

This is the same question I have. I'm still on the fence about ordering it

I just reviewed the booklet that shows all the changes for the 17 and heres what I saw about the dampers:

"The following changes have been made to all models following use of the SACHS dampers:

Increased thickness of the V-shaped strut tower bar mounting bracket on the middle of the dash panel.

Increased thickness of the transmission cross-member reinforcing plate and changed shape of cross-member.

Added reinforcement to outside of rear wheel housing

Reinforcement has been added to the outside of the rear wheel housing to improve durability following use the SACHS dampers.

The shape of the mudguard has been changed following addition of reinforcement."

So it seems that they are actually adding rigidity to the frame for the performance pack which is interesting...

They also stated the following as a characteristic of the Sachs dampers:

"The use of SACHS dampers has increased energy transmitted to the chassis, and reinforcement has been added or reinforcing plate thickness increased to maintain chassis durability."


This is all found on page 96 from the booklet

Edit: so I would assume that it will indeed increase ride stiffness. With that said, I placed an order for mine with performance pack yesterday. I figured I will end up with coilovers in the future regardless. I received an estimated delivery date of February so far.

[Jo0]

If the Sachs dampers are anything like in the MK6 and MK7 GTI. Everyone will be happy with how they ride and perform. Autocrossing and tracking my friend's MK6 with just a stage 2 tune and super sports surprised me on how capable the car is performing while being tame on the streets.

The only thing that really interests me in the PP is how the brembos actually hold up and if they really do benefit the car. I want a reviewer or a user here to report on them after some track days. I'm always skeptical about brembos coming on a car off the lot mainly because I feel like it's just a grab tactic. Not to bash brembos in anyway, but you can't deny that it successfully gets casual drivers to buy a package that just to boast to their friends that they have brembo brakes.

[RJ_203]

I wonder what Toyota have in store for the 86 this winter. Will the Toyota get a Performance package as well??? I been trying to search everywhere for info but nothing...

[johan]

Originally Posted by Barefootdan

I just reviewed the booklet that shows all the changes for the 17 and heres what I saw about the dampers:

"The following changes have been made to all models following use of the SACHS dampers:

Increased thickness of the V-shaped strut tower bar mounting bracket on the middle of the dash panel.

Increased thickness of the transmission cross-member reinforcing plate and changed shape of cross-member.

Added reinforcement to outside of rear wheel housing

Reinforcement has been added to the outside of the rear wheel housing to improve durability following use the SACHS dampers.

The shape of the mudguard has been changed following addition of reinforcement."

So it seems that they are actually adding rigidity to the frame for the performance pack which is interesting...

They also stated the following as a characteristic of the Sachs dampers:

"The use of SACHS dampers has increased energy transmitted to the chassis, and reinforcement has been added or reinforcing plate thickness increased to maintain chassis durability."


This is all found on page 96 from the booklet

Edit: so I would assume that it will indeed increase ride stiffness. With that said, I placed an order for mine with performance pack yesterday. I figured I will end up with coilovers in the future regardless. I received an estimated delivery date of February so far.

The wording there can be tricky - but the reality is - they are saying they put the sachs on there, realized the body was too soft, and changed their tooling / approach to certain areas to address it... across the board "all models". So these changes are made to all cars, regardless of PP or not. This has been backed up by countless interviews and reviews where journalists had conversations with the engineers.

[Barefootdan]

Originally Posted by johan

The wording there can be tricky - but the reality is - they are saying they put the sachs on there, realized the body was too soft, and changed their tooling / approach to certain areas to address it... across the board "all models". So these changes are made to all cars, regardless of PP or not. This has been backed up by countless interviews and reviews where journalists had conversations with the engineers.

Ah, I see what they mean. Thanks for pointing that out! It makes sense now.

[~el~jefe~]

this could mean that, or the EXACT opposite. It is most likely true that Subaru was attempting to make the suspension more sporty by adding Sachs ZF. After doing this, like many tuners do, they notice not a great difference. What does add to the suspension is the structure of the car and the rigidity. I read it as a bunch of crap that's poorly written for no audience, actually. It could be that they needed to also put more structure on the car for it to make fancy Sach dampers be truly useful.

ANyone have an idea about harshness of ride? I really do not want to spend $30,000 dollars on something that is more harsh because of a 1100 dollar upgrade I chose. I am buying one this week I hope. IF i can find this information out.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

this could mean that, or the EXACT opposite. It is most likely true that Subaru was attempting to make the suspension more sporty by adding Sachs ZF. After doing this, like many tuners do, they notice not a great difference. What does add to the suspension is the structure of the car and the rigidity. I read it as a bunch of crap that's poorly written for no audience, actually. It could be that they needed to also put more structure on the car for it to make fancy Sach dampers be truly useful.

ANyone have an idea about harshness of ride? I really do not want to spend $30,000 dollars on something that is more harsh because of a 1100 dollar upgrade I chose. I am buying one this week I hope. IF i can find this information out.

I posted this before in another thread but these ZF Sachs dampers are very likely to be of the "Sensitive Damping" type. This means that they will feel firmer with things like body roll and possibly bring more feedback into the chassis with small bumps but when you hit larger bumps, they will likely feel softer than the standard dampers. This is due to the two-valve system described here:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLIzz4QXHKA"]ZF SDC Sensitive Damping Control Animation - YouTube[/ame]


So I guess it depends on what you prefer. For me, this is what I want from a damper but some might prefer more body roll or they are planning to go with coilovers so it does not matter to them.

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

this could mean that, or the EXACT opposite. It is most likely true that Subaru was attempting to make the suspension more sporty by adding Sachs ZF. After doing this, like many tuners do, they notice not a great difference. What does add to the suspension is the structure of the car and the rigidity. I read it as a bunch of crap that's poorly written for no audience, actually. It could be that they needed to also put more structure on the car for it to make fancy Sach dampers be truly useful.

ANyone have an idea about harshness of ride? I really do not want to spend $30,000 dollars on something that is more harsh because of a 1100 dollar upgrade I chose. I am buying one this week I hope. IF i can find this information out.

to be fair, you chose the "performance package" and shouldn't expect it to be the "comfort package." you need to make compromises for performance compared to comfort

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by ryoma

to be fair, you chose the "performance package" and shouldn't expect it to be the "comfort package." you need to make compromises for performance compared to comfort

The best shocks with best technology stop jarring bumps and put more pressure on cornering. Every person I talked who has a R53 mini cooper S as a multipurpose car (2006 and earlier) changed to Koni FSD kits. They provided better cornering and also better on bumps. There really are terrible shocks out there that manufacturers use. My thought was that the Sachs might be like that: better cornering and better ride. That is my only guess, but i have no idea what the stock shock/struts are yet. Looking for that info as well.

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

I posted this before in another thread but these ZF Sachs dampers are very likely to be of the "Sensitive Damping" type. This means that they will feel firmer with things like body roll and possibly bring more feedback into the chassis with small bumps but when you hit larger bumps, they will likely feel softer than the standard dampers. This is due to the two-valve system described here:

So I guess it depends on what you prefer. For me, this is what I want from a damper but some might prefer more body roll or they are planning to go with coilovers so it does not matter to them.

OMGOSH. nice video.

That was like a sensual experience.



Thank you for that. I see now that Sachs is some fancy dancy shock absorber company. I wonder the longevity of them, I guess pretty decent for that level I would expect.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

OMGOSH. nice video.

That was like a sensual experience.



Thank you for that. I see now that Sachs is some fancy dancy shock absorber company. I wonder the longevity of them, I guess pretty decent for that level I would expect.

Yeah, Sachs is an OEM for every German automotive company and many other European car companies. So they should be just as reliable or better compared to other OEM shocks. I noticed that the strut mounts on the Sachs looked beefier than the stock Showa's too. And yes, this technology has the same principle as Koni FSD (but different implementation).

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Yeah, Sachs is an OEM for every German automotive company and many other European car companies. So they should be just as reliable or better compared to other OEM shocks. I noticed that the strut mounts on the Sachs looked beefier than the stock Showa's too. And yes, this technology has the same principle as Koni FSD (but different implementation).

I will name my first child after you. Thank you.