Toyota and Subaru Officially Confirm Second Gen 86! (September 27, 2019)

[yurikaze]

Originally Posted by korhun

If I were the designer of this car, I would want a right to sue some of the modifications.

The car was actually designed with modifications in mind.

[TunaNoCrust]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

Probably built like one anyway.

Is it wrong that at (a possible) 4.0L displacement I'd like it to be a V8?

Ford Taurus had a short lived 3.4L V8

[Dake]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm all for a 4.0 liter V8 in the next Nissan Z car, but anyone that actually thinks that will happen is even more delusional than the people that think Subaru will ever give us a turbo BRZ from the factory.

Infiniti already uses the "400" model designation for their Q50 sedan which utilizes a 3.0 liter TT V6. IF Nissan were to give us a 400Z it would most likely have this engine. And most likely be a larger car and be heavier. Neither of which is an appealing scenario in my eyes. Goes against the ethos of the car as well (the GTR is the heavy complex car in the lineup).

The (more so recent than anything else) trend of each new model NEEDING a larger number is really stupid (Hey BMW, looking at you). Personally I would just prefer a refreshed/revamped new model still utilizing a naturally aspirated V6. Keeping hydraulic steering is a pipe dream, but one can pretend.

If it came down to a heavier model with the TT V6 or a V8 (yeah right) or a lighter model with an NA V6 or turbo 4, I favor the later. It would be more affordable and fill a niche that currently is not occupied. Going a little heavier with a more powerful engine is too much overlap with V8 ponycars and potentially the Supra.

I'm still waiting on my IDX



Better than that, I'll take a rebadged Alpine A110. Put that (currently fragile) alliance to work for the US.



I'd put down a deposit at the local Nissan dealer TODAY for a Nissan Alpine Z.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Dake

Better than that, I'll take a rebadged Alpine A110. Put that (currently fragile) alliance to work for the US.



I'd put down a deposit at the local Nissan dealer TODAY for a Nissan Alpine Z.

If this was to come to pass what would the performance version be called, a NISMO or a Gordini-san?

[korhun]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

The car was actually designed with modifications in mind.

Yea, ok. But some of them have gone a little bit too wrong. Like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Ruining a beautiful car, just hurts me.

[korhun]

TL; DR - Wow.. that Nissan looks cool, like the sport version of the first car of my family. Fiat 131

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

If Subaru is still involved (which has been confirmed), you can guarantee that it's going to come with a boxer motor of some sort.

Agreed, very likely to be a Subi boxer. That is how Toyota rolls in these sportscar partnerships it seems - they like to use the other company’s engine.

I'd place my bets on an evolution of the FA series. I think an FA22 with 220hp euro emissions compatible is probably what it'll get.

I think it is highly unlikely Subaru would create a brand new engine for a low volume sportscar. As with the FA20 which was used in lots of other Subaru cars, the next 86/BRZ engine will be from the Subaru parts bin, so look there... they have 1.8s (next Levorg gets this, and possibly next WRX), 2.0s, and 2.4s. It will likely be one of these IMO.

[vh_supra26]

Auto media is saying test mule for the next Nissan Z has been spotted.

https://www.motor1.com/news/379265/n...-mule-spotted/

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/10/it...-z-sports-car/

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Agreed, very likely to be a Subi boxer. That is how Toyota rolls in these sportscar partnerships it seems - they like to use the other company’s engine.



I think it is highly unlikely Subaru would create a brand new engine for a low volume sportscar. As with the FA20 which was used in lots of other Subaru cars, the next 86/BRZ engine will be from the Subaru parts bin, so look there... they have 1.8s (next Levorg gets this, and possibly next WRX), 2.0s, and 2.4s. It will likely be one of these IMO.

One of the main reasons that Toyota wanted Subaru in on the project in the first place was they wanted a boxer engine. They say that right up front in the history.




Why wouldn't they? They did for the first gen engine.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Agreed, very likely to be a Subi boxer. That is how Toyota rolls in these sportscar partnerships it seems - they like to use the other company’s engine.

I think it is highly unlikely Subaru would create a brand new engine for a low volume sportscar. As with the FA20 which was used in lots of other Subaru cars, the next 86/BRZ engine will be from the Subaru parts bin, so look there... they have 1.8s (next Levorg gets this, and possibly next WRX), 2.0s, and 2.4s. It will likely be one of these IMO.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

One of the main reasons that Toyota wanted Subaru in on the project in the first place was they wanted a boxer engine. They say that right up front in the history.
Why wouldn't they? They did for the first gen engine.

Because they now realize it forces compromises they did not want to make. Plus the entire reason for it, lower center of gravity, was just defeated by the Supra. And they have a nice 4 cylinder engine that is currently in the Camry that they could easily drop in the next one to add plenty of torque.

One of the Supra interviews has them saying the boxer hurt more than helped, or something like that. I think. At least when it came to the front suspension.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by why?

Because they now realize it forces compromises they did not want to make. Plus the entire reason for it, lower center of gravity, was just defeated by the Supra. And they have a nice 4 cylinder engine that is currently in the Camry that they could easily drop in the next one to add plenty of torque.

One of the Supra interviews has them saying the boxer hurt more than helped, or something like that. I think. At least when it came to the front suspension.

How “easily”? You have some engineering spec you can share? Why did they use a BMW engine in the Supra if they can just drop any old engine in?
It will be another boxer if not just a tweaked version of the same one.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

The car was actually designed with modifications in mind.

It was a nice marketing ploy.

99% of the advertising was a marketing ploy to embed Toyota with Subaru.

Australia went through a simular alliance in the 80's and 90's with General Motors Holden and Toyota.

Lots of talk, lots of PR, Toyota wanted a easy in for manufacturing plant, the cars were built by Holden and Rebadged.

The rebaged cars didn't sell though.

Toyota bined the alliance in 1996.

The General Motors Holden plant closed in 2017 because the cars were unreliable and generally rubbish value for money.

I can honestly see Toyota cutting Subaru away.

[Dake]

Originally Posted by why?

Because they now realize it forces compromises they did not want to make. Plus the entire reason for it, lower center of gravity, was just defeated by the Supra. And they have a nice 4 cylinder engine that is currently in the Camry that they could easily drop in the next one to add plenty of torque.

One of the Supra interviews has them saying the boxer hurt more than helped, or something like that. I think. At least when it came to the front suspension.

Recall Car & Driver has called BS on the Zupra's lower CoG claim anyway.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by why?

Because they now realize it forces compromises they did not want to make. Plus the entire reason for it, lower center of gravity, was just defeated by the Supra. And they have a nice 4 cylinder engine that is currently in the Camry that they could easily drop in the next one to add plenty of torque.

One of the Supra interviews has them saying the boxer hurt more than helped, or something like that. I think. At least when it came to the front suspension.

The Supra has less ground clearance. Also, I imagine it's floor and tunnel are quite dense since those parts are probably shared with a convertible.

Same reason a Tesla has a low CG. Besides, a more useful measurement would be roll torque, but that is more complicated to explain so marketing doesn't talk about it if they even understand it.