What's the best setup to learn

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

Thanks. Not tossing autocross yet, I found a one day school with hopefully I get more seat time. Definitely I enjoyed those 6 laps/7 minutes of driving, used track mode without worrying.

I looked in to drifting before as well and found open drift event but not classes. Seems like that's the way to go. Do rally classes help?

I'm an avid autocrosser, so I'll be biased, but for a good reason.

Our local events are about an hour away. I drive 2-3 hours for some other more regional events. I have a 5-6 hour drive ahead of one at the end of this month. I do about 20+ per year.

For the money, it's likely your best seat time. Especially starting out, it's a good place to learn the limits and push them. Whereas on track, you might not want to go 10/10ths. Hitting a cone is one thing, sliding into a wall at even 50+mph is another.

Not to mention the vast knowledge of everything. The people. The courses that change all the time. Forget about "just seat time". It's about walking to course, talking to competitors about it, learning... even working the course and watching everyone else's line depending on the car they drive. Literally it's 8 hours of constantly learning and picking up on things. It's not just ~5 minutes of seat time.

Drift and rally are two different things, way different from even autocross or the track. Track and autocross are at least more related. Before jumping into just everything, I'd figure out what you're trying to do. If it's get quicker on a track, autocross is likely key. Drift you're just out there goofing around and trying to go way over the limit to slide and play around. Rally is great, but not really for BRZs or a 2023 new car... even rallycross, which I assume is what you're talking about.

[GrandSport]

If you know you're going to do it a lot, go ahead and get bbk, camber plates and wheels for cheaper tires. they'll save you money in the long run, so just get them now.

Other than that, you dont need anything and likely wont improve faster from it either.

Spend the money on private instruction with a coach. HPDE instructors are great for what they are, which is mostly to get you bare basics and around the track safely. Coaching is a whole different level of learning.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

I'm an avid autocrosser, so I'll be biased, but for a good reason.

Our local events are about an hour away. I drive 2-3 hours for some other more regional events. I have a 5-6 hour drive ahead of one at the end of this month. I do about 20+ per year.

For the money, it's likely your best seat time. Especially starting out, it's a good place to learn the limits and push them. Whereas on track, you might not want to go 10/10ths. Hitting a cone is one thing, sliding into a wall at even 50+mph is another.

Not to mention the vast knowledge of everything. The people. The courses that change all the time. Forget about "just seat time". It's about walking to course, talking to competitors about it, learning... even working the course and watching everyone else's line depending on the car they drive. Literally it's 8 hours of constantly learning and picking up on things. It's not just ~5 minutes of seat time.

Drift and rally are two different things, way different from even autocross or the track. Track and autocross are at least more related. Before jumping into just everything, I'd figure out what you're trying to do. If it's get quicker on a track, autocross is likely key. Drift you're just out there goofing around and trying to go way over the limit to slide and play around. Rally is great, but not really for BRZs or a 2023 new car... even rallycross, which I assume is what you're talking about.

On track day, I spend about 325 for 4 sessions of 20 mins, that 80 mins, $4 per minute. At autocross I spent 70, got 6 laps of average 70 seconds, that's 7 minutes, $10 per minute. I still haven't tossed or autocross as do understand the other value aspect of it, I don't think it's worth driving 1.5 hour but I found another org that arranges event 30ins away, so probably look in to those. The autocross school session I found is all day and is 1 hour away, so I am doing that one.

I asked about rally is because the racer who was my instructor was talking with someone and mentioned that rally driving saved him multiple times on track, I gathered that experience of rally driving teaches control that can be useful when something goes wrong. The reason I want to try drifting or rally driving is to for same reason. I am just trying to gather which sport can teach me what, so the silly questions.

My objective is to learn better car control.

[blsfrs]

Once I get my car trustworthy again, I want to spend some time on a skidpad.

[Spairo]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Once I get my car trustworthy again, I want to spend some time on a skidpad.

Do you do SCCA events? How far are you from Summit Point?

Go fast, take chances.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

On track day, I spend about 325 for 4 sessions of 20 mins, that 80 mins, $4 per minute. At autocross I spent 70, got 6 laps of average 70 seconds, that's 7 minutes, $10 per minute. I still haven't tossed or autocross as do understand the other value aspect of it, I don't think it's worth driving 1.5 hour but I found another org that arranges event 30ins away, so probably look in to those. The autocross school session I found is all day and is 1 hour away, so I am doing that one.

I asked about rally is because the racer who was my instructor was talking with someone and mentioned that rally driving saved him multiple times on track, I gathered that experience of rally driving teaches control that can be useful when something goes wrong. The reason I want to try drifting or rally driving is to for same reason. I am just trying to gather which sport can teach me what, so the silly questions.

My objective is to learn better car control.

If time is a premium and you want a lot track time per day, look into private memberships.
My track is open 75%-85% of weekends I want to go. $300/mo and it's all I care to drive and I have the option of having a garage at the track. I can easily do 3 hours a day. I can also just go on very short notice. My buddy called me yesterday at 6pm and we decided to go.
It's a better quality of track time too. They're 30 min on/off sessions, so a smaller percent of it is your out lap and cool down lap. Plus, the field is much less crowded.

Only real downside is you won't run as many different tracks. It's not that you can't- you're just as free to go somewhere else one weekend, but you get spoiled. I honestly wouldn't run an HPDE day if it was free. It's not worth my time to sit there all day to run 5x 20 min crowded sessions (5 min of which are wasted getting on/off and one session is always cut short due to to someone screwing up).
You'll also make friends with people who are members at other track and ride their membership.

But it's not really worth it unless you know you're going to do a lot of track days. At least one a month imo. Then you're close to break even compared to most HPDE and get much more time and more quality track time. The $300 garage also saves me a ton of headache, time, cost of a trailer and storing a car + trailer (I live downtown so it's not easy)

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by Spairo

Do you do SCCA events? How far are you from Summit Point?

Go fast, take chances.

Probably not great advice in the "what's the best setup to learn" thread lol.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

If time is a premium and you want a lot track time per day, look into private memberships.
My track is open 75%-85% of weekends I want to go. $300/mo and it's all I care to drive and I have the option of having a garage at the track. I can easily do 3 hours a day. I can also just go on very short notice. My buddy called me yesterday at 6pm and we decided to go.
It's a better quality of track time too. They're 30 min on/off sessions, so a smaller percent of it is your out lap and cool down lap. Plus, the field is much less crowded.

Only real downside is you won't run as many different tracks. It's not that you can't- you're just as free to go somewhere else one weekend, but you get spoiled. I honestly wouldn't run an HPDE day if it was free. It's not worth my time to sit there all day to run 5x 20 min crowded sessions (5 min of which are wasted getting on/off and one session is always cut short due to to someone screwing up).
You'll also make friends with people who are members at other track and ride their membership.

But it's not really worth it unless you know you're going to do a lot of track days. At least one a month imo. Then you're close to break even compared to most HPDE and get much more time and more quality track time. The $300 garage also saves me a ton of headache, time, cost of a trailer and storing a car + trailer (I live downtown so it's not easy)

Thanks, that's very inexpensive, I would check out if it's offered in nearby tracks.

[strat61caster]

If you’re only getting better when you’re driving the car you’re missing out.

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by Spairo

Do you do SCCA events? How far are you from Summit Point?

Go fast, take chances.

I'm 2.25 hours from Summit Point. I've been there for TrackDaze and NASA events. Road Potomac has offered skid pad sessions there.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

On track day, I spend about 325 for 4 sessions of 20 mins, that 80 mins, $4 per minute. At autocross I spent 70, got 6 laps of average 70 seconds, that's 7 minutes, $10 per minute. I still haven't tossed or autocross as do understand the other value aspect of it, I don't think it's worth driving 1.5 hour but I found another org that arranges event 30ins away, so probably look in to those. The autocross school session I found is all day and is 1 hour away, so I am doing that one.

I asked about rally is because the racer who was my instructor was talking with someone and mentioned that rally driving saved him multiple times on track, I gathered that experience of rally driving teaches control that can be useful when something goes wrong. The reason I want to try drifting or rally driving is to for same reason. I am just trying to gather which sport can teach me what, so the silly questions.

My objective is to learn better car control.

Was that with Turn2 you were only getting 4 20min sessions? It is usually at least 5. Look into Skip Track Days down at ORP. It is pretty much open track, 265 for 7 hours. I know it is a long ways from you but it is cheaper. Check ahead of time since they don't always have the on site pumps running so you may have to bring fuel cans. ORP is a very technical track, also very abrasive surface that is hard on tires.

Outside of super 200's not many of the tires out there are that good in the wet in the 200tw range. As mentioned the RS4's are not, neither are the SX2's. I can't comment on the 615's as I only ran them in the dry. I didn't mind the Dunlop Z3 in the wet, they were quite a bit better than the Hankooks when things got moist but not as good of tire wear by a significant margin. Unless you have more then one set of wheels you may be better off with just sticking with the PS4's or ECS for now.

All the guys I know that have done the one day rally school with Dirtfish said it really helped their on track driving.

I'd recommend doing a day with HOD or Performance.

[Spairo]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

I'm 2.25 hours from Summit Point. I've been there for TrackDaze and NASA events. Road Potomac has offered skid pad sessions there.

When SCCA has HPDE's on Shenandoah, the infield skid pad is open all day. It is a fantastic opportunity. I will usually hit it 2-3 times on my driving days.

Go fast, take chances.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Was that with Turn2 you were only getting 4 20min sessions? It is usually at least 5. Look into Skip Track Days down at ORP. It is pretty much open track, 265 for 7 hours. I know it is a long ways from you but it is cheaper. Check ahead of time since they don't always have the on site pumps running so you may have to bring fuel cans. ORP is a very technical track, also very abrasive surface that is hard on tires.

Outside of super 200's not many of the tires out there are that good in the wet in the 200tw range. As mentioned the RS4's are not, neither are the SX2's. I can't comment on the 615's as I only ran them in the dry. I didn't mind the Dunlop Z3 in the wet, they were quite a bit better than the Hankooks when things got moist but not as good of tire wear by a significant margin. Unless you have more then one set of wheels you may be better off with just sticking with the PS4's or ECS for now.

All the guys I know that have done the one day rally school with Dirtfish said it really helped their on track driving.

I'd recommend doing a day with HOD or Performance.

Thanks.

I haven't been able to do track day with T2 or HOD. Only T2 has evening session but that's in September. I have done track day with TNIA when we last had conversation, then IRDC at Pacific raceways, next one on 14th this month is again with IRDC at Pacific, one next month is with BMW again at Pacific. It's just that I can't make it to ridge early in day, so doing full day events at Pacific.

I was looking at dirtfish recently, just the website, would definitely check them out.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

Thanks.

I haven't been able to do track day with T2 or HOD. Only T2 has evening session but that's in September. I have done track day with TNIA when we last had conversation, then IRDC at Pacific raceways, next one on 14th this month is again with IRDC at Pacific, one next month is with BMW again at Pacific. It's just that I can't make it to ridge early in day, so doing full day events at Pacific.

I was looking at dirtfish recently, just the website, would definitely check them out.

Ahh, okay I remember now. You may try Performance at Pacific. Once you go through their novice program and get checked off for solo they have evening lapping. The novice class is in the morning and after checked off for solo, they run in the afternoon.