I totally bought the wrong car

[IrishTG]

... The Focus ST.

(little long, sorry 'bout that, there is a TLR...)

We used to be a 1 car, 1 bike house but with my kids getting older, and them taking interest in different things, we really needed a 2nd car. I've been riding 2 wheels since I could walk, more or less, and didn't want to give up my bike, but I also didn't want 3 notes and I started realizing that I wasn't enjoying riding as much as I used to because all I could think about when I was on the stupid busy highways on the way to the twisties was my kids and distracted riding is dangerous riding. I'd been fighting those feelings for a bit honestly and that was part of why I gave up my supermoto and went to a cruiser, thinking it would calm me down on the twisties, but it didn't, I instead just spent a bunch of money reworking the suspension and giving it more power so it would be a better carver (so much for a cruiser...).

The deal I made with the ol' lady was that if I do it, I get to choose my car and I wanted something that was quick and handled well so I could continue my love of twisty road carving on the weekends. Having been sort of out of touch with cars for a bit because of bikes being my focus in my mechanical life, I started with some research and read all these good things about the Focus ST. At first I wasn't interested, but then my wife got the best of me with "it's your choice, but I think you should stop looking at coupes and stuff because part of this is you being able to take the kids places". Well, I listened, and then I drove the ST and wasn't blown away but it was "nice" - I also drove the Civic Si and while it was ok, it just wasn't there all the way and I would have only bought the coupe which she didn't like the idea of, the GTI which I liked a lot more than the ST, but the pricing wouldn't work out because I was going in at a small loss on the bike, and the WRX which I liked more than the other two but the dealer had a $5k markup and wouldn't budge more than $2k on it and I wouldn't do that even if I was starting at 0 with no negative equity.

The twins... I read a lot about them and their great handling and whatnot, but I'm not going to lie, I got caught up in the "they're SO slow" talk and when combined with the tiny backseat, I didn't even drive them (FML). Well, back to the Ford dealer I went, took another ride in the ST and said, yeah, it's good enough, let's do it. It is pretty quick, feels like it has some good handling, reviewers love it, and it has room for the kids and the wife at the same time so it can be a legit mini-family car when needed. The Ford dealer gave me a surprisingly good trade on my bike and I signed the paper work, drove home happy and content, or so I thought.

After the initial 500 mile break in, I took it to a pretty awesome road about 40 miles away that has a 55 mile speed limit throughout the entire stretch and it's tight and technical so you can have fun without pushing the limits too far or dangerously and had a good time. It was quick out of the faster corners, I was managing the torque steer on the lower speed exits, had decent straight line performance - all good. However in the back of my mind it just wasn't completely "right", ya know? I could feel the weight, it's FWD, it could get super jittery at times, etc. Wasn't pushing it too hard since I wasn't all the way to 1k miles (plus public road, no lane crossing for me, not trying to kill myself or anyone else), but still got enough of a feel of how it was on a tight and technical road.

Well, once the new car feeling wore off I found myself reading about other cars in the segment constantly. I kept telling myself that I knew the Focus ST was never going to be a 10 year keeper and I was just planning for the next one, but deep down I knew it was buyer's remorse.

This past weekend I made it worse on myself, I drove both an FR-S and a BRZ. The first was the FRS and I honestly walked away with mixed feelings, however I realize that it was more the fault of the annoying sales person in the car with me and the crappy test drive route. Lots of traffic so I couldn't ring it out to hit the powerband, no curves outside two on/off ramps, and a sales person that was nervously conservative and knew nothing about the car but wouldn't shut the hell up. He was also a pushy sob and insisted we could come to terms even though I just bought my ST (I knew we couldn't) and proceeded to low ball a trade offer and then implied I was a moron because of how upside down I would be and that I would need $8k as a down payment even though I told him flat out I wasn't there to make a deal today and I was planning for 12 months from now when I positive on the loan.

Other Toyota dealers in the area had no manuals in stock so I figured what the hell, I'll try a BRZ and compare, only at the Suby dealer they said "take it and park it up front when you get back". What? They were letting me go alone? Well, this changed things dramatically and I was able to feel the car. I did some acceleration tests to see just how "slow" it really was and then I went to a parking lot and did a bunch of figure 8s to get a feel for the handling. Followed that up with a blast down a short twisty road in an industrial area that was empty because Sunday.

I. Freaking. Loved. It.

Yes, it was just a 25 minute test drive, but here's my feelings:

1. It isn't that slow. No, it isn't a muscle car and it won't put you through the seat, but it isn't that slow. I'm not a straight line speed guy, but I still like quick and it was fine here. It might feel slower than it is because of the lack of torque, especially down low, that doesn't push you into the seat, but in reality, it was fine if you keep it in its power. Here's the kicker, the Focus ST isn't all that fast either and I don't understand why people use it as a point of reference in the price segment as a car that is "OMG SO FAST" when compared to the twins.

The ST FEELS faster because of the low end torque, but between weight, wheel spin, and other such things it just doesn't perform as well as its numbers imply. This is a statement made from owning one for 3.5 months, not from a test drive and magazine numbers. It is quick, but it isn't fast, and while it does have better passing power and will put car lengths on the twins from a roll as a result, it still isn't all that fast. I'm sure someone will argue with me on this point, and that's fine, it's my opinion after driving one daily for a few months and getting to know it very, very well. Sure, the aftermarket can give you big numbers easily, but even then it doesn't really get that much faster because of the overall dynamics.

2. The handling is amazing. You all know this, and now I know what you're talking about. It isn't about track times, or being the fastest, it is about that feel and enjoyment and this thing has it all day.

3. Interior isn't that amazing and feels a bit on the cheap side (BRZ better than FR-s by a long shot here), but who cares when a car drives like this. The seating position, the wheel, the low to the ground feeling, etc.

4. The weight made me feel like I was driving a boat when I got back into the ST. So light and nimble.

5. The one thing I didn't like was the high clutch engagement and vague feel, I haven't over-revved so much from a stop since I started driving a manual when I was 15 years old almost 20 years ago. I've heard you can adjust this easily though.

6. My kids fit in the back and it can still handle the short trips I may need to take with them. It could even take all 4 of us in a pinch, but I wouldn't do it regularly. This surprised me after reading about how useless the back seat is so many times. It's no Maybach back there, but it works when needed. In the 3.5 months I've had the ST I've taken the entire family in it a few times, and it was just because I wanted to drive and not take my wife's Accord. I rarely need to take them all and the twins fit my kids fine when I need to take both of them (I'm not that tall myself at 5'10" and I don't like to be stretched away from the controls so my 4 year old does fit behind me in his booster).

7. I preferred the slightly more planted feel of the BRZ. The FR-S seemed a lot more wiling to kick out the back when I didn't really want it to (both had factory issue rims/tires, no dealer changes there). I'd be happy to own either, but the nicer interior and added bit of confidence I got from the BRZ would definitely push me in that direction.

Anyway, I'm sorry this got so long, so here's a TL;DR:

I don't care about the straight line speed all that much and I don't need a rocket ship. The Focus ST isn't living up to what I wanted it to and in all honesty it isn't all that fast either but has better passing power and "go from a roll" so it feels faster. I loved every minute of my drive with the BRZ and if I wasn't in my current loan situation I would have bought it on the spot and dumped the ST.

I'm doing everything I can to get ahead of my loan and according to my calculations I should be positive (beat negative equity and 1st year depreciation) in 11 months. Once that happens, I will be joining the club and I can't wait. Also, naysayers be damned - sure, a little more power wouldn't hurt, but who really cares when a car is this much fun to drive. The pro-twins crowd was right, if this car is for you, you'll get it instantly, if it isn't, you'll constantly want more and that's fine, just go to a car that gives you want you want. Well, I get it.

[DarkSunrise]

The BRZ/FR-S are the type of cars where by the first turn, you'll either be in love or hate them. If you enjoy corners and like to rev, these cars are great. If you want effortless speed in a straight line, you'll wonder what the hype is about.

Glad to hear you found the car you were looking for. There are some great deals on used ones, and the market should only get better by the time you're in a position to buy one.

[BWilky]

I am getting more excited about buying a twin each time I read posts like this. I was recently watching some videos on Magnus Walker and this car is very much like the old 911's as he describes it as flat foot driving. The twins seem to best for driving all out but at comfortable speeds and maintaining speed through corners.

As long as you don't mind losing stop light races to mid size cars (camary or accord) this car should be great for most spirited driving needs.

[EzyBrzy]

I was also in between the Focus ST and brz. Test drove the BRZ and didn't even bother with the Focus lol.

[tyrantcf]

Ever consider used? You can get used BRZs for the low 20's now pretty easily.

[PNW-BRZ]

Dont worry too much on the clutch feel. There is a thread or two on here about removing the clutch spring from the pedal and getting a better feel to it. Simple and free fix. Once you get the car, you will get hooked. The tunes (Ecutek, OFT, Delicious etc) make the drive even that much more pleasurable. The torque dip is one of the things that bug me, but from what i can see, headers do a good job of fixing that. Its a very fun car to drive, and I definitely prefer the handling over raw power.

[IrishTG]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The BRZ/FR-S are the type of cars where by the first turn, you'll either be in love or hate them. If you enjoy corners and like to rev, these cars are great. If you want effortless speed in a straight line, you'll wonder what the hype is about.

Glad to hear you found the car you were looking for. There are some great deals on used ones, and the market should only get better by the time you're in a position to buy one.

Indeed. There is also the rumors (confirmed?) of a slight 2017 refresh and that might be hitting the shelves when I'm ready.

Originally Posted by BWilky

I am getting more excited about buying a twin each time I read posts like this. I was recently watching some videos on Magnus Walker and this car is very much like the old 911's as he describes it as flat foot driving. The twins seem to best for driving all out but at comfortable speeds and maintaining speed through corners.

As long as you don't mind losing stop light races to mid size cars (camary or accord) this car should be great for most spirited driving needs.

Yeah, totally. I admit when I was 17-18 I was all about stoplight racing, but now that I'm 34 and wiser, I just don't care. I get it sometimes in the Focus when people recognize the badges and exhaust and I let them go while I just takeoff normally. One exception was a dude in a super, super riced out Civic that obviously had no real performance mods...

Originally Posted by EzyBrzy

I was also in between the Focus ST and brz. Test drove the BRZ and didn't even bother with the Focus lol.

Yeah man, I kick myself for not driving them before signing on the Focus. You live and learn, right?

Originally Posted by tyrantcf

Ever consider used? You can get used BRZs for the low 20's now pretty easily.

I have and I may go that route once I'm able to clear the Focus without a nasty upside down situation. On the other hand, I often worry about buying used cars that are performance oriented for fear of what the previous owner did. If it's still in warranty it isn't as big of a concern, but I have no way of knowing if the last guy spent hours at redline doing donuts in a parking lot or what. I was actually mechanic for a living when I was younger so I don't fear wrenching and I actually enjoy it again now that I don't do it for a living anymore, but still, definitely don't want to inherit unnecessary problems.

Low miles, still in warranty just in case, and clean CarFax? Yeah, I'd consider it.

Originally Posted by PNW-BRZ

Dont worry too much on the clutch feel. There is a thread or two on here about removing the clutch spring from the pedal and getting a better feel to it. Simple and free fix. Once you get the car, you will get hooked. The tunes (Ecutek, OFT, Delicious etc) make the drive even that much more pleasurable. The torque dip is one of the things that bug me, but from what i can see, headers do a good job of fixing that. Its a very fun car to drive, and I definitely prefer the handling over raw power.

Definitely good to know as that was my only real complaint with the feel. The shifter, on the other hand, was awesome. Good to hear about the tunes as well.

[evomike]

in all fairness your comparing a car you've had for some time and picked apart to a car you've driven for 20 minutes, you may think its not all that slow until you actually live with it. your best bet honestly is to think about upgrading the tires and some suspension bits on the car you have now.

[LostSalad]

And congrats on being responsible with your loan. I think these cars are best driven distraction-free, and that voice in the back of your head probably wouldn't shut up if you spent more than you had

[ashtray]

The "its so slow" issue isn't a problem 95% of the time - and honestly that last 5% is probably when you're trying to do somethkng you shouldnt be. But at those times, it is frustrating. My other car is a WRX. You hit the gas and take off. You want to pass someone, or accelerate up a hill - what hill?! You're gone!

The WRX doesn't handle like the BRZ though - it plows through turns by comparison.

The twins are also a bit tight in rear seat room - and buckling in a kid or two can be a challenge as you need one foot in the rear footwell to then lean all the way in, showing your backside to all the other parents at the school/daycare while you try to buckle the straps or the get the seatbelt in to the other end which is low down in a crevace between booster seat and car seat.

Funny enough, the front cup holders are very easily reached by kids in the back seat - so their sippy cup or water bottle can go there. Just watch your elbow when shifting.

The twins are good cars - but being of similar age and family needs and driving style as you, they're far from perfect. But they're not bad either. If I didn't have my WRX, I'm sure I'd tire of using the BRZ for daily kid duty. As it is though my WRX is over 12 years old and much less fun to drive, I use it 75% of the time due to convenience. Hence why my BRZ has a mere 8k miles after owning it for 3 years.

Have fun with the FoST. Try keeping it for a few years if you can. Driving it the first year could cost you $4k in depreciation but the second year might only cost you $2k. Minor sacrifice for the family budget - shoot, at least you didn't have to settle for a base Focus and keep it 8 years. 2-3 years in a FoST certainly isn't punishment.

[Speed2th]

you also forgot to mention how sexy 86 is.

[IrishTG]

Originally Posted by evomike

in all fairness your comparing a car you've had for some time and picked apart to a car you've driven for 20 minutes, you may think its not all that slow until you actually live with it. your best bet honestly is to think about upgrading the tires and some suspension bits on the car you have now.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from, but when I had that 20-25 minute drive it just "clicked". The Focus never clicked like that. When I test drove it I liked it, but didn't love it, and I honestly went with it because the GTI and WRX weren't going to happen and I was running under the guise that I needed more utility than I actually do. I absolutely needed to get into a car so waiting months was out of the question and I wasn't going to go the full-on econobox route, and the ST seemed like the best choice given my circumstances.

When I did my 3 test drives in the ST I always got out and said it's good enough. When I finished driving the BRZ I got out and didn't want to leave it behind. I got home and started thinking of all the ways I could manage to get ahead of my loan quicker... maybe I could sell a kidney . Not to mention, I asked my 7 year old which car he preferred and he said the BRZ, so that right there is all the motivation I need (I kid... I kid...).

Originally Posted by LostSalad

And congrats on being responsible with your loan. I think these cars are best driven distraction-free, and that voice in the back of your head probably wouldn't shut up if you spent more than you had

Totally. When I was younger I got into a few pretty horrible loans thanks to lack of patience and immaturity. Now, with a wife and kids to worry about, and having built a very respectable credit situation for ourselves, I'm not ever doing it again. I want one, but I'm not going to get into a crappy loan and hurt myself financially for it.

Originally Posted by ashtray

The "its so slow" issue isn't a problem 95% of the time - and honestly that last 5% is probably when you're trying to do somethkng you shouldnt be. But at those times, it is frustrating. My other car is a WRX. You hit the gas and take off. You want to pass someone, or accelerate up a hill - what hill?! You're gone!

The WRX doesn't handle like the BRZ though - it plows through turns by comparison.

The twins are also a bit tight in rear seat room - and buckling in a kid or two can be a challenge as you need one foot in the rear footwell to then lean all the way in, showing your backside to all the other parents at the school/daycare while you try to buckle the straps or the get the seatbelt in to the other end which is low down in a crevace between booster seat and car seat.

Funny enough, the front cup holders are very easily reached by kids in the back seat - so their sippy cup or water bottle can go there. Just watch your elbow when shifting.

The twins are good cars - but being of similar age and family needs and driving style as you, they're far from perfect. But they're not bad either. If I didn't have my WRX, I'm sure I'd tire of using the BRZ for daily kid duty. As it is though my WRX is over 12 years old and much less fun to drive, I use it 75% of the time due to convenience. Hence why my BRZ has a mere 8k miles after owning it for 3 years.

Have fun with the FoST. Try keeping it for a few years if you can. Driving it the first year could cost you $4k in depreciation but the second year might only cost you $2k. Minor sacrifice for the family budget - shoot, at least you didn't have to settle for a base Focus and keep it 8 years. 2-3 years in a FoST certainly isn't punishment.

Definitely could have done worse, I don't want to sound like someone that doesn't appreciate what they have, because I do. I'm just frustrated that I didn't take an extra week or two (I didn't have months to wait, but I could have given it a little more time) to drive a few more cars and give it more thought on just how much utility I needed.

My wife can drive a manual just fine and car swapping is not a problem. In a pinch I can take them all, but in reality it will be taking one kid to soccer while the other goes to karate with the wife 9 times out of 10 and that shouldn't be a problem. I did a run around the lot with my older son in the back and no passenger and he was totally comfortable and could move his legs/feet just fine. I then got out and pushed the seat back until I could comfortably sit in the passenger seat and he was still fine, but tighter, so my 5'3" wife should be fine when he is back there since she would have the seat about halfway between where it was with no passenger and where I was comfortable. On the driver's side, I can move forward 1-2 notches and my 4 year old can fit comfortably in his booster, and when I'm in what would be my normal position, he still fits but it's a bit tighter on his feet because his legs dangle.

Anyway, I'm definitely with you that it isn't the most practical thing in the world, but given my situation, it should work just fine and if I need to take both kids on an extended journey while my wife needs to go somewhere else for some reason, she can take my car and I her grocery getter. I will definitely say that if we didn't have her car for practicality, or if we were planning on another child, I would definitely be sticking with a hatch or performance 4 door sedan like the WRX.


EDIT:

Just wanted to add something about the speed. I used to ride liter bikes off an on, and when I realized how insanely impractical it was on the street, I dropped to an SV650 which was still pretty damned quick off the jump and had good V-Twin passing power, but didn't have much top end at all and died off at about 125. Even with that, I realized that tight, technical cornering was my love and while the SV was a strong handler, it was still faster than I really needed so I traded it in and got a DRZ400SM supermoto. The DRZ was 0-60 in about 5.5-6 seconds (400cc single) and had a top speed of about 98mph (indicated!) with me on it. With a tailwind and a downgrade I broke 100 a couple times... lol. Anyway, that was my favorite bike EVER. I didn't care how slow it was and how poorly it did on the highway with no passing power, it was a monster in the corners when I got good rubber on it and adjusted the suspension to my weight and that is what gave me my thrills. I had no real power to correct mistakes so you had to ride it into the turn, and out of the turn, the RIGHT way and that is what made it enjoyable to me.

In short, my history on bikes has given me more speed than I could ever really get on a car I could actually afford. Modern Mustang GTs and Camaro SS's are close, but still not all the way there and the sensation isn't the same in a car as it is on a bike. I've been there, done that, and I realize that I don't need it to have fun because, to use the old cliche, driving a slow car/bike fast is more fun than a fast car/bike slow. Not to mention, driving a slower car teaches you more about technique and doing it the right way because you can't overcome bad cornering with excessive straight line power.

[strat61caster]

After reading this and hundreds of articles and posts about "handling" on new cars and responses with Mustang and FoST and Genesis and gti laying down similar or better laptimes so the "handling" on the 86 doesn't make up the speed it loses in the power department I think I'm going to stop talking about how good the "handling" is on the 86.

I'm going to say it dances. Some people will get it, many won't, and that's ok, but don't follow it up by telling me I'm wrong about my car. OP gets it.


And 90% of the reason I'm responding to this post is to say that the phrase is "wring it out" not "ring it out"
'cause I'm a dork.

Edit: OP, depending on how strong the remorse is I wouldn't wait, you're just loosing money on the ST day after day, I'd do it as soon as you found a good used BRZ on a lot. Trade the FoST in, roll the few thousand you're underwater into the new loan and pretend you bought the BRZ new. IMO

Edit 2: Whoops, meant to finish with IMO there's not much a previous owner could do to a used car that I couldn't conceivably make similar mistakes, you can easily save more than $5k buying a '13.

[Atticus808]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

After reading this and hundreds of articles and posts about "handling" on new cars and responses with Mustang and FoST and Genesis and gti laying down similar or better laptimes so the "handling" on the 86 doesn't make up the speed it loses in the power department I think I'm going to stop talking about how good the "handling" is on the 86.

I'm going to say it dances. Some people will get it, many won't, and that's ok, but don't follow it up by telling me I'm wrong about my car.


And 90% of the reason I'm responding to this post is to say that the phrase is "wring it out" not "ring it out"
'cause I'm a dork.

you're wrong about your car