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Old 01-03-2020, 12:12 PM   #3711
MaverickMonk
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Another boring noob question from, well, a noob (yo)...

Got a set of Flex A’s waiting to go on my car, it’s a daily driver and also some autocross but I’m a complete noob on the track. Looking to make my car better during install instead of ruining it.

How valuable is a full corner balance going to be for me, within the grounds of daily driving and having the instructor yell in my ear about how my idea of “maintenance throttle” is about as conservative as my nonna’s pasta portions and my transitions are as sloppy as a soup sandwich.

Is it (vs a good regular alignment by a race shop) going to give me a noticeable improvement in feel or performance, or is it something not worth spending the >$400 on until after I’ve had a few more years of practice?

Also, assuming .75-1” of drop, are LCAs and/or adjustable end links something I should be getting? Or am I being too much of a perfectionist here. Obviously they’d be required to keep everything perfect, but I’m not sure where the line of “good enough” lays.

Thanks!
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:24 PM   #3712
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If your corner balance is out of whack, your car will handle differently in left vs right corners, making it harder to learn and tame.
When installing mine I was able to eyeball the left vs right ride heights precisely enough that my shop said they only did minor adjustments, but ymmv.

You don't need toe arms for such a moderate drop. Whether you need LCAs depends on what are your long term plans and whether your OEM alignment is ok. For example I'm going to install LCAs before my planned "regular" alignment check, and the reason why I'll install them is that I have more negative camber on the left, but most tracks around are CCW.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:28 PM   #3713
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Full corner balance is nice to, not must have. As it often may cost a lot, it won't be end of universe if skipped. Good performance oriented alignment on the other hand is more then advised, if auto-x/hpde/track use is planned.
Performance alignment, as in way more front camber to dial out understeer and overall more camber for track use for more optimal contact patch, more grip and more even tire wear, in addition to dial camber & toe even and more precise then probably OE alignment was. For front camber adjustment flex a includes camberplates in set (as stock, these cars have only front & rear toe adjustment). But to gain camber adjustment in rear you need adjustable aftermarket LCAs. I guess, i'd probably also throw in one front camberbolt set, as it's cheap and to extend adjustment range, if camberplates alone won't net enough camber.
For performance alignment, imho as good starting point would be something like -3deg front camber, 0 front toe, -2.5 rear camber, +0.15 overall rear toe-in. Preferably as even as possible side to side, especially toe. Remember to ask printout of alignment.
For minimum track prep i'd also get more track oriented brake pads and brake fluid of higher boiling temps. May matter less for short auto-x runs, much more so for HPDE/track use with longer sessions. In addition to helmet, good cheap things worth taking along would be tire air pressure gauge & CG-lock.

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:14 PM   #3714
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Thanks for the detailed info! Definitely getting at least a performance alignment (my regular mechanic is an OG spec Miata guy, I’m sure I’ll be in good hands), just debating the extra ~$300 on a corner balance. Those specs for alignment are pretty much what I’m shooting for too, although I might back off a bit on the camber since I do a lot more daily driving than autoX.

When I said endlinks though I wasn’t referring to toe links, but sway bar end links. I understand that preloading your sway bars is no bueno, but I’m curious as to, again, how much it matters. Also out of curiosity how the crap do you adjust them without having a lift? Wheel stands I assume? Can’t just do it on jack stands since you want the weight to all be on the wheels.

As for other prep, TRD pads and some High temp fluid are standing by, along with one thing you missed... ARP wheel studs! Damn these stock ones basically butter! I always use a torque wrench but any time it goes to a dealership or whatever someone shears a lug...

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:51 PM   #3715
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I would argue that an adjustable coil-over suspension is not being optimized without an entire proper setup; ride height, corner balance and alignment.

My first experiences with coil overs on a car were a setup borrowed from others on the same coil overs coupled with a custom alignment, the car was good. When I stepped up and finally had someone way more knowledgeable than me, namely Chris Valle at Speed Syndicate, setup the car it was completely transformed. It was neutral, more predictable, better turn in and much easier to drive faster.

Suspension tuning is certainly more than bolting on parts and hoping, the complete setup package including a corner balance from a knowledgeable shop gets you the most out of your suspension.
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:18 PM   #3716
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Proper set up on a set of coilovers is very important. You can make a really good coilover handle like crap if the details are wrong.

A corner balance is one part of that, IMO less important than some of the other details. While a good alignment is essentially required for a performance street car (and even moreso on a track car), a corner balance is just highly encouraged. But it is needed if you want to take full advantage of your coilovers.

- Andrew
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:44 PM   #3717
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Proper set up on a set of coilovers is very important. You can make a really good coilover handle like crap if the details are wrong.

A corner balance is one part of that, IMO less important than some of the other details. While a good alignment is essentially required for a performance street car (and even moreso on a track car), a corner balance is just highly encouraged. But it is needed if you want to take full advantage of your coilovers.

- Andrew
Always appreciated Andrew. I guess I’ll need to suck it up and put it on the short list of To-Dos. Did you have any input re: sway bar endlinks and Rear LCA? Strongly encouraged vs do it someday vs stop majoring in the minors?

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Old 01-19-2020, 10:41 AM   #3718
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Hi guys, I'm currently on lowering springs on the stock pp shocks. I got the vorshlag camber plates that add 1" shock travel. Is there something available (from anyone) or in the works for OEM rear shocks (& similar) with lowering springs? I'd like to get "full/ideal" travel.

I'm using this setup as it's cost effective to maintain, I only track 2-3 times a year. This setup is good enough for my skill level.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:05 AM   #3719
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Hi,

I recently swapped out my rear LCAs with SPC brand control arms. My dad installed them and we decided against installing the toe kit that came with them. After getting the car aligned, I notice an insane amount of bump steer when hitting even slightly uneven pavement. It feels as if I'm losing control of the vehicle for 1-2 seconds. We took it back to the same alignment shop for a test drive and the tech noticed the bump steer, but couldn't diagnose the cause of the problem. We've decided to keep the SPC control arms on and take it to another alignment shop to get a 2nd opinion.

For some background, my car is stock ride height. Other suspension parts include SPL front LCAs and SPL trailing arms, other than that completely stock. The car drove fine before installing the SPC LCAs.

Were the LCAs installed improperly, or maybe it was a bad alignment job? Or is this the nature of SPC rear control arms? Should we go back and install the toe kit that came with the control arms? Everything was even and in-spec on the alignment paper. If the next alignment shop can't fix the issue, I'll just replace the control arms with stock.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:15 AM   #3720
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Torque the hell out of them, 130 ft lbs or so on the adjustment bolt. Make sure the toe arms are torqued too, ~80 ft lbs or so.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:16 AM   #3721
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What rear toe arms?

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Mods, maybe a sticky for this thread?
Hey guys. I installed FA 500 coils the other weekend, and im waiting to install my SPL rear LCA until i have toe arms to do at the same time. im not sure which toe arms to get, or if it even matters. some are $200, some are $400. my goals are DD, novice trackable, not slammed, gentlemans setup. the reason i did coils and lca is because im having a Rallybacker kit installed by professionals, and during consultation, installer said coils, rlca, and toe arms are a must, so im not argueing with the people who know more than me, and taking their advice. THX!
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:15 PM   #3722
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Hey guys. I installed FA 500 coils the other weekend, and im waiting to install my SPL rear LCA until i have toe arms to do at the same time. im not sure which toe arms to get, or if it even matters. some are $200, some are $400. my goals are DD, novice trackable, not slammed, gentlemans setup. the reason i did coils and lca is because im having a Rallybacker kit installed by professionals, and during consultation, installer said coils, rlca, and toe arms are a must, so im not argueing with the people who know more than me, and taking their advice. THX!
I would be careful with unprotected bearings in Boston on a daily driver. I chose Whiteline toe arms for that reason, but considered the Cusco arms. Very nice but expensive. We sell those two primarily but there a few other good sets out there. I also considered using my own protective booties for the bearings.

Toe arms are imo worth it...makes alignment easier, more consistent, and replaces a bushing with a less compliant one. Not a must but encouraged.

- Andrew
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:19 PM   #3723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlock View Post
Hi guys, I'm currently on lowering springs on the stock pp shocks. I got the vorshlag camber plates that add 1" shock travel. Is there something available (from anyone) or in the works for OEM rear shocks (& similar) with lowering springs? I'd like to get "full/ideal" travel.

I'm using this setup as it's cost effective to maintain, I only track 2-3 times a year. This setup is good enough for my skill level.
I have not tried a lowering rear top mount with OEM style springs in the rear. I'm not sure it would work.

- Andrew
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:21 PM   #3724
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Originally Posted by BRZodizo View Post
Hi,

I recently swapped out my rear LCAs with SPC brand control arms. My dad installed them and we decided against installing the toe kit that came with them. After getting the car aligned, I notice an insane amount of bump steer when hitting even slightly uneven pavement. It feels as if I'm losing control of the vehicle for 1-2 seconds. We took it back to the same alignment shop for a test drive and the tech noticed the bump steer, but couldn't diagnose the cause of the problem. We've decided to keep the SPC control arms on and take it to another alignment shop to get a 2nd opinion.

For some background, my car is stock ride height. Other suspension parts include SPL front LCAs and SPL trailing arms, other than that completely stock. The car drove fine before installing the SPC LCAs.

Were the LCAs installed improperly, or maybe it was a bad alignment job? Or is this the nature of SPC rear control arms? Should we go back and install the toe kit that came with the control arms? Everything was even and in-spec on the alignment paper. If the next alignment shop can't fix the issue, I'll just replace the control arms with stock.
Do you have an alignment print out? How are the trailing arms set? Same length as stock?

- Andrew
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