Correct my understanding of shop tunes and off-shelf tunes

[Lakitu]

1. You should still take your car to a tune shop after you buy and flash an off-the-shelf tune after installing a kit

2. You can skip buying an off the shelf and go directly to a shop for the tune (you'd have to tow the car there, I'm assuming)

3. Companies like Delicious and MotoEast are makers of a generic tune map that's not very specific to your car & mods, but good enough to get you to a shop to fine tune it further

4. ECUtek is a device to flash the ECU with a tune map (basically a more fancy OpenFlashTablet)

5. Shops make their own maps in real time specific to your car and use their own ECUtek license, so buying your own is optional if you can get the car to the shop somehow

Thanks

[theadmiral976]

Many off-the-shelf maps are just fine for stock cars or those with non-FI modifications (e.g. headers, intakes, E85, etc.). They can be used safely without putting your car on the dyno. Always read the tuner's build notes / read-me file to make sure your car "qualifies" for the map you want to install.

If you are going FI, you will need to have the car put on a dyno and mapped. That said, many retailers sell FI kits that provide a base off-the-shelf map that allows you to drive it to the dyno reasonably safely.

Tuners are able to modify large portions of engine maps by email depending on what you (and they) are trying to do. Map revisions don't necessarily require a new trip to the dyno.

You will always be better off having a car put on a dyno and specifically mapped to your setup, even if your setup is OEM stock and you are simply modifying the OEM stock map. But the gains may not be worth the price you pay.

Read this for ECUTek: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117520

[soundman98]

tunes are like shirts.

some people's needs are so generic, so routine, that an off-the-shelf tune fits them just fine.

but some people are looking for something very specific, pushing the limits in a way that while others are doing in a similar way, are not doing exactly the same way. in these cases, a custom tune is required, but an off-the-shelf tune would work to get the vehicle running.

[DarkPira7e]

1. This depends on the kit. If it is forced induction and someone isn't doing datalogging back and forth, and sending you tune revisions, absolutely. If your car is N/A, an off the shelf tune is acceptable.

2. Depends on the modifications. I wouldn't spend any money on an e-tune if I were bringing it to a shop anyway.

3. They do all sorts of tunes. E-tunes are car specific, because you send them datalogs and they send you back tune revisions, it's not like they send you the map and then you're stuck with that version of it. if you download free " off the shelf" maps, then yes you're stuck with that revision.

4. ECUtek is a company with proprietary hardware for flash tuning your car. It is comprised of 4 main components.
- ECUtek cable (long USB cable with green OBD2 plug)
- ECUtek license Dongle (It is your license)
- ECutek ProECU Software ( Software used for tuning and flashing maps
- Ecutek RaceRom ECU Patch ( Unlocks more advanced software tuning for your platform)

You do not need Racerom, but you need all three of the other components. You can give your dongle to the shop, and they use the ProECU Software to make the map. If you want RaceRom, it is applied to your dongle ID license.

5. This depends on the shop. Only specific shops will have ECUtek licences as a retailer (Master tuner status as ECUtek labels them). Most of the time, a shop will ask that you provide all 4 components I listed above. It totals to about $1,200 and is worth every penny if you are going turbo.


For clarification - An E-tune is not an off the shelf map. An e-tune is a map that they send you revisions of back and forth until they/you are happy. E-tune is far superior to off the shelf. Dyno/shop tune is superior to e-tune for safety during the tuning process, as they can monitor the car's reaction in real time, not after the damage is done while you were datalogging.
Installing a turbo kit with new injectors/fuel pump will have vastly different needs than if you install just new headers on an otherwise stock car. You can definitely drive the car that has only headers installed to the shop to get it tuned. if you install a whole turbo kit with different injectors and a fuel pump, the car will run terribly, if at all. Advice is free - when you've done the work, ask the tuner you have in mind if they think it'd be safe to drive it, or if you should have it towed to the shop.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Lakitu

1. You should still take your car to a tune shop after you buy and flash an off-the-shelf tune after installing a kit.
Depends if your pirchasing an e-tune package or jist a base map\tune. Base tunes are generally very conservative of ten rev limited tunes that are jist a transport tune you use to get your car to the tune shop\dyno.


An e-tune may start with a base map but you will send tuner logs and they will review and adjust tune. E tunes are generally done by tuners who have done lots of tunes on similar or same car\fi kits and already have pre sorted maps developed on dyno






2. You can skip buying an off the shelf and go directly to a shop for the tune (you'd have to tow the car there, I'm assuming)


Yes if you want to go that way, this saves you cost of buying a tune device\cavle kit.


3. Companies like Delicious and MotoEast are makers of a generic tune map that's not very specific to your car & mods, but good enough to get you to a shop to fine tune it further.


See above answer to question 1


4. ECUtek is a device to flash the ECU with a tune map (basically a more fancy OpenFlashTablet)


Ecutek has advantages for forced induction as the system add functionality like closed loop boost control, map switching intergrated flex fuel, over boost protection. its more expensive but generally worth it unless you NA or only using low boost


5. Shops make their own maps in real time specific to your car and use their own ECUtek license, so buying your own is optional if you can get the car to the shop somehow


You still need an ecutek licience, shop will charge you for it, if you go to shop you wont need cavle kit flash device.


The shop wont start from scratch, they will ise a base map and work from their. Its best to go to shop thats done quite a few fi brz\86.



The good e tuners like moto east deliceous hri will generally peoduce a better result than a local shop that has not done much brz\86 work


Thanks

Xx

[CSG Mike]

CSG tunes are custom to each and every person who purchases one.

While you ***START*** with a conservative base, each revision deviates you further and further from the base, until it is completely unique and specific to your car.

Even the bases are different for every common setup; every header has a different base, as does every turbo kit, and every supercharger kit.

There are even bases for various styles of built engine.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by Lakitu

1. You should still take your car to a tune shop after you buy and flash an off-the-shelf tune after installing a kit

2. You can skip buying an off the shelf and go directly to a shop for the tune (you'd have to tow the car there, I'm assuming)

3. Companies like Delicious and Xero Limit are makers of a generic tune map that's not very specific to your car & mods, but good enough to get you to a shop to fine tune it further

4. ECUtek is a device to flash the ECU with a tune map (basically a more fancy OpenFlashTablet)

5. Shops make their own maps in real time specific to your car and use their own ECUtek license, so buying your own is optional if you can get the car to the shop somehow

Thanks

1: OTS is for stock to near stock cars is the only acceptable use of an OTS tune. After that there are too many variables, particularly with FI.

2: Only if it is a shop that has done many 86's in the past. Otherwise you'll be paying quite a bit for dyno time just for them to figure out the platform.

3: We historically have not done OTS tunes. We send a base tune first, then the customer sends datalogs and we fine tune each car. Sometimes we nail it the first time, but that's pretty rare as there is usually something to be gained through fine tuning.

4: EcuTek has a staff of engineers behind their product. The reason it costs more is due to the more advanced equipment (check out the bluetooth app/dashes you can set up), real customer support, and far more advanced mapping.

5: Shops use their own hardware typically, unless you go to a master tuner who also retails hardware.

[solidsnake11]

What i don't quite understand is if every car needs to be tuned different why does the factory only use one tune for 100,000s of cars? I know one offs need a different tune but a lot of cars are using the same FI setups. Plus the computer has compensations built in.

[churchx]

Factory tune includes lot of safeguard mechanisms to take into account misc car part and fuel quality considerations. It will also mean underperformance, as tune is not fine-tailored to capabilities of specific car engine/parts/mods. "Good enough for most" that allows for much shortened/simplified manufacturing or service maintenance process procedures and not requiring for every dealership to have highly trained ecu specialist (for different cars in manufacturer's lineup at that) shouldn't be undervalued on manufacturer side. You want to extract more performance? Pay for individual work of specialized on that work tuning shops. Manufacturer and dealership is about getting numbers of cars through and doing generic stuff on them using OE parts and manufacturer's procedures, among which individual ecu tuning (except at most flashing latest OE tune vs some possible fixes) is not.

[solidsnake11]

Tuned = less safegaurds ?
What can you expect from a tune on a completely stock brz with a tune? Could you expect that kind of gains for every stock car you flash.

My point is same mods, same tune, same hp.
Same turbo kit, same tune, same reliability and hp unless something is screwed before hand.

[86MLR]

Not all tuners are equal

Far from it, and I mean very far from it