Sportbikes similar to the FRS in principle?

[IceFyre13th]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Motus is defunct btw

sad....but true https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...ve-immediately

[p1l0t]

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[SCQTT]

You cant go on displacement alone. A 500 or 600cc twin might be appropriate, but perhaps not an inline 4. when I first started visiting Taiwan bikes over 125cc were banned. When they dropped the ban I bought a 1050 Speed Triple. It was like riding around on a space ship, because no one had seen something like that in person. In town it sucked, but it was cool on the mountain roads. In Taiwan motorcycles were forbidden on the freeways. Depending on the country a 500cc bikes could be huge, the largest thing you can buy.

So first and foremost the OP needs to decide what is appropriate for the country they are in and what type of riding they will do.

The power to weight ratio of almost everything you have posted soundly beats the 86. IMHO the Yamaha WR250X is probably the closest (or there is also a Kawasaki version) to the 86. Handling, tires and brakes that far exceed what the engine can do in a very lightweight package. The supermoto also has less bodywork and the bodywork is more durable than the 300/400 Ninja or 300CBR. A 450 supermoto would be like having 400+ horsepower in a BRZ/86

As for the person posting that it is OK to start on a 600cc bike to start with. Sure rider restraint would be great, but how likely is that? Things happen exponentially faster with power and speed. And with the ungodly power of I4 sport bikes coupled with close ratio transmissions whisky throttle is a real concern when all four limbs are involved with operation (for ANY new rider)

It is like jumping from a single engine plane to one with two engines, it is not just a matter of flying it slower, EVERYTHING happens faster and it becomes way more dangerous.

IIRC there are lots of folks on here that get themselves in a lot of trouble turning off the nanny features of the mild mannered BRZ/86 twins.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

You cant go on displacement alone. A 500 or 600cc twin might be appropriate, but perhaps not an inline 4. when I first started visiting Taiwan bikes over 125cc were banned. When they dropped the ban I bought a 1050 Speed Triple. It was like riding around on a space ship, because no one had seen something like that in person. In town it sucked, but it was cool on the mountain roads. In Taiwan motorcycles were forbidden on the freeways. Depending on the country a 500cc bikes could be huge, the largest thing you can buy.

So first and foremost the OP needs to decide what is appropriate for the country they are in and what type of riding they will do.

The power to weight ratio of almost everything you have posted soundly beats the 86. IMHO the Yamaha WR250X is probably the closest (or there is also a Kawasaki version) to the 86. Handling, tires and brakes that far exceed what the engine can do in a very lightweight package. The supermoto also has less bodywork and the bodywork is more durable than the 300/400 Ninja or 300CBR. A 450 supermoto would be like having 400+ horsepower in a BRZ/86

As for the person posting that it is OK to start on a 600cc bike to start with. Sure rider restraint would be great, but how likely is that? Things happen exponentially faster with power and speed. And with the ungodly power of I4 sport bikes coupled with close ratio transmissions whisky throttle is a real concern when all four limbs are involved with operation (for ANY new rider)

It is like jumping from a single engine plane to one with two engines, it is not just a matter of flying it slower, EVERYTHING happens faster and it becomes way more dangerous.

IIRC there are lots of folks on here that get themselves in a lot of trouble turning off the nanny features of the mild mannered BRZ/86 twins.

A WR250X is not as fun as it looks on paper. A 450(if they made it stateside) yeah, the 250 is too slow to be fun on a back road.

[troyguitar]

I thought that my old 250 ninja was a blast in the same way that the 86 is a blast.

Why do so many people need to do 0-60 in 3 seconds for a bike to be "fast enough"? It makes no sense.

If I were to get a new bike now, I'd be looking for the newly announced Kawasaki ZX-25r but most likely settle on something like a Yamaha R3 for a fraction of the price.

Doing 150 mph on public roads is insane, not fun.

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

A WR250X is not as fun as it looks on paper. A 450(if they made it stateside) yeah, the 250 is too slow to be fun on a back road.

So, again, I'll say it (WR250X) is like the 86. Great chassis. Handling, brakes, but low on grunt and power. Have to keep corner speeds high and work on technique, because a big engine won't help you mask your driving/riding flaws.

I've had several Supermotos in many different sizes.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

So, again, I'll say it (WR250X) is like the 86. Great chassis. Handling, brakes, but low on grunt and power. Have to keep corner speeds high and work on technique, because a big engine won't help you mask your driving/riding flaws.

I've had several Supermotos in many different sizes.

Unless all the corners are sub 20 mph marked the 250X is boring. Anything over that is too easy to go wide open through since it struggles to do over 70mph. Especially with a street tire like a Conti Attack SM. There is no technique in that, it is pure easy mode.

Back around 05-06 it used to be really easy to dual sport a bike in Oregon and we had a regular customer who was a trust fund kid. He bought a brand new KTM 450SMC which we dual sported for him. Then swapped out the trans for that of an EXE-W. Now that thing was fun.

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Unless all the corners are sub 20 mph marked the 250X is boring. Anything over that is too easy to go wide open through since it struggles to do over 70mph. Especially with a street tire like a Conti Attack SM. There is no technique in that, it is pure easy mode.

Back around 05-06 it used to be really easy to dual sport a bike in Oregon and we had a regular customer who was a trust fund kid. He bought a brand new KTM 450SMC which we dual sported for him. Then swapped out the trans for that of an EXE-W. Now that thing was fun.

I've had a KTM 450SM and a 625 SMC, lots of fun, but not what I would call comparable to the 86/BRZ, like the question asked by the OP. Perhaps an LS swap car with lost of grunt off the bottom end.....otherwise I'll stand by my post as the two WR250X - 86/BRZ are comparable.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

I've had a KTM 450SM and a 625 SMC, lots of fun, but not what I would call comparable to the 86/BRZ, like the question asked by the OP. Perhaps an LS swap car with lost of grunt off the bottom end.....otherwise I'll stand by my post as the two WR250X - 86/BRZ are comparable.

I'd say, especially stock, the handling and performance of a twin matches the speed of the car. The handling and performance of a 250X greatly outmatches the speed of it's motor, making it boring. It is the handling equivalent of riding a modern superbike on the freeway. Something like an RC390 or 390 Duke matches more to a twin to me. Definitely not a 450 SMC. I was just referencing the fact I don't find the 250X fun on the street, and the 450 SMC was. Only reason I mentioned it.

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I'd say, especially stock, the handling and performance of a twin matches the speed of the car. The handling and performance of a 250X greatly outmatches the speed of it's motor, making it boring. It is the handling equivalent of riding a modern superbike on the freeway. Something like an RC390 or 390 Duke matches more to a twin to me. Definitely not a 450 SMC. I was just referencing the fact I don't find the 250X fun on the street, and the 450 SMC was. Only reason I mentioned it.

I'd say, especially stock, the handling and performance of a twin matches the speed of the car. The handling and performance of a 86/BRZ greatly outmatches the speed of it's motor, making it boring. It is the handling equivalent of riding a modern superbike on the freeway. Something like an RC390 or 390 Duke matches more to a twin to me. Definitely not a 450 SMC. I was just referencing the fact I don't find the 86/BRZ fun on the street, and the 450 SMC was. Only reason I mentioned it.

Fixed according to many, many folks.

I'm finished with this thread, I'll stand by my assessment of the comparison. I'm not going to post a resume here, but......

[serialk11r]

So...has anyone noticed the ZX-25R?

If they bring that to the US and it has 19000rpm, I think I might need to get a motorcycle license and buy one...

With the advantages of modern combustion chamber design and EFI, I would guess that it can produce something like 55hp instead of the 45hp that carbureted 250cc engines cranked out.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

I'd say, especially stock, the handling and performance of a twin matches the speed of the car. The handling and performance of a 86/BRZ greatly outmatches the speed of it's motor, making it boring. It is the handling equivalent of riding a modern superbike on the freeway. Something like an RC390 or 390 Duke matches more to a twin to me. Definitely not a 450 SMC. I was just referencing the fact I don't find the 86/BRZ fun on the street, and the 450 SMC was. Only reason I mentioned it.

Fixed according to many, many folks.

I'm finished with this thread, I'll stand by my assessment of the comparison. I'm not going to post a resume here, but......

I love responses like this. So weak and full of butt hurt.

Just comparing my resume... I mean experiences. If you can't do that on the internet without getting offended then don't, it is the internet after all. I used to think my bike was like a twin in nature, but after seeing other peoples thoughts and thinking about it, it is more like a V-6 Camaro

Hope nobody has to tell you "no" today.

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

So...has anyone noticed the ZX-25R?

If they bring that to the US and it has 19000rpm, I think I might need to get a motorcycle license and buy one...

With the advantages of modern combustion chamber design and EFI, I would guess that it can produce something like 55hp instead of the 45hp that carbureted 250cc engines cranked out.

It is going to have 50hp and we will not see it in the US. The heyday of hi tech quarter liter sportbikes was 20 years ago and while the ZX25 is super cool, it is mostly made for countries with licensing restrictions. If brought here is would be substantially more money than the Ninja 400 in price and it simply would not sell.

[IceFyre13th]