This is the C8 mid-engine Chevy Corvette

[funwheeldrive]

"Automatic transmissions were once again favored over manuals at 77.6% or 27,017 cars"

Damn, no wonder GM decided to scrap the manual transmission.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

"Automatic transmissions were once again favored over manuals at 77.6% or 27,017 cars"

Damn, no wonder GM decided to scrap the manual transmission.

What we don't know is it customers or GM driving that since we don't know the percentage that were ordered vs spec cars. There were 587 cars with museum delivery (basically picked up at the factory) so those were special orders. Unfortunately it doesn't show the breakdown of those cars.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

"Automatic transmissions were once again favored over manuals at 77.6% or 27,017 cars"

Damn, no wonder GM decided to scrap the manual transmission.

If everyone buying a manual jumps ship to a competitor with a manual then they just reduced sales by 22.4%. By most standards, losing more than a fifth or almost a quarter of sales would be devastating for a brand. Their hope is that a dual clutch is manual-enough for some buyers. It wouldn’t be for me.

What Dadhawk suggested is something I too have stated. Across all vehicles, it is usually the manual transmission that is offered in only the lowest spec models, and even if it isn’t, the automatics carried a premium over the manuals, making for an incentive for dealerships to put more automatics on their lots. I’m sure demand is down from customers due to a lack of ability to drive manuals, but I believe manufacturers and dealerships are also driving this trend.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

If everyone buying a manual jumps ship to a competitor with a manual then they just reduced sales by 22.4%. By most standards, losing more than a fifth or almost a quarter of sales would be devastating for a brand. Their hope is that a dual clutch is manual-enough for some buyers. It wouldn’t be for me.

There is also another factor that plays into this. It is very unlikely that a high percentage of people would jump ship because of the availability (or lack there of) of a MT. Of the 78% that bought AT, there is some unknown percentage of them that went into the dealership preferring an MT along with other options and traded off AT for some other feature, specific trim level, or even something as basic as color.

So of the 22.4% that bought manual the opposite is true. There are some that bought it because it was available but may have or may not have been their preference.

In the end the percentage that put MT at the top of their priority list is most likely a small subset of the 22% that actually bought them. In the case of the Corvette if you REALLY want a configuration you could get it. It's one of the few US built cars that its pretty straightforward to order a custom built one, down to you being able to build the engine yourself at the factory.

I can give you an example from my own experience. When we bought our '05 Mustang it was to be my wife's car. We bought it at the end of the first year after the hoopla had died down and you could get the "new retro" style below MSRP. Her priority above all else was that it had to be red, and it had to be a convertible. She wanted a GT and a MT (her DD at the time was a MT). In the end, she traded off the GT and the transmission because all we could in "Red and Convertible" at the time was a 6 cylinder AT.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

If everyone buying a manual jumps ship to a competitor with a manual then they just reduced sales by 22.4%. By most standards, losing more than a fifth or almost a quarter of sales would be devastating for a brand. Their hope is that a dual clutch is manual-enough for some buyers. It wouldn’t be for me.

True, but by deciding to only use one transmission from the beginning they were able to avoid all the extra engineering, and production costs associated with a manual transmission . Plus they don't need to teach their techs on how to service the car with an entirely different transmission. It seems like as time moves on more car enthusiasts are okay with not having a manual option. I'm not one of those people and there will always be fringe enthusiasts who require a car with a manual transmission, but I can see why GM decided to go this route for simplicity's stake, similar to how Toyota decided to not offer a manual with the Supra.

If people really want a manual they can buy a Camaro or 86.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

True, but by deciding to only use one transmission from the beginning they were able to avoid all the extra engineering, and production costs associated with a manual transmission . Plus they don't need to teach their techs on how to service the car with an entirely different transmission. It seems like as time moves on more car enthusiasts are okay with not having a manual option. I'm not one of those people and there will always be fringe enthusiasts who require a car with a manual transmission, but I can see why GM decided to go this route for simplicity's stake, similar to how Toyota decided to not offer a manual with the Supra.

If people really want a manual they can buy a Camaro or 86.

Or they can buy a Cayman or M2. Like you, I wouldn’t buy the Supra or Corvette because it doesn’t come with a manual. The experience is just completely different. I would trade a lot from price to power to performance for a manual.

@Dadhawk ...Oh I totally agree, and dropping the manual really only works in a market where practically everyone is dropping a manual. It will likely not persuade many to ditch the Corvette because their options are limited. Many Corvette buyers, you know, those die hard American types, are probably not cross shopping Caymans and M2s anyways.

[gtpvette]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What Dadhawk suggested is something I too have stated. Across all vehicles, it is usually the manual transmission that is offered in only the lowest spec models, and even if it isn’t, the automatics carried a premium over the manuals, making for an incentive for dealerships to put more automatics on their lots.

Case in point, Bomin Chevy in Miami, 5th largest Corveete dealer in country. Was looking at their inventory today... 193 2019 Corvettes in stock and 27 are manual.

Also,,, 8 speed auto is a $1995 upgrade over the manual. Ouch!

Also,, they're showing this car at $56K which is discounted pretty good.

[ZDan]

Lifelong motorhead here. For most of my life, the manual transmission version of any performance car was by far THE one to have. That is no longer the case. Especially given a mid-engine configuration, where a manual linkage is necessarily more complicated and less direct, developing a manual for the C8 just didn't make sense, except to appease luddites and nostalgia buffs. So they skipped it. Fine by me...

I bought an '11 Cayman earlier this year, 6-speed manual because I was worried about trackability and reliability of the PDK. But at Watkins Glen the other day my student made me show him the way around the track in his '14 Cayman S PDK. DAMN, that transmission is sweeeet... My manual 6-speed is clumsy and SLOW in comparison. There's a lot to be said for being able to brake hard without having to execute heel/toe downshifts, and ability to upshift while accelerating out of a corner without a twitch and scarcely any power interruption. It doesn't take away from the driving experience, rather it allows you to concentrate MORE on driving.

That said, for a car like the FT86 or Miata, where the transmission is *right there* relative to shifter location, and where $$$ and weight are bigger considerations, and where time lost during upshifts isn't as great, a manual is going to make sense for a few more years at least...

[Rampage]

With the UAW striking GM, it looks like the wait for the 2020 C8 mid-engine Corvette is going to get longer. Teamsters are also saying they will not cross UAW picket lines to transport vehicles already made. What do you want to bet the the UAW will make a point of picketing the Bowling Green plant to put even more pressure on GM by delaying their most anticipated car in years.

[Atmo]

C8 Cutaway:

[why?]

Originally Posted by Rampage

With the UAW striking GM, it looks like the wait for the 2020 C8 mid-engine Corvette is going to get longer. Teamsters are also saying they will not cross UAW picket lines to transport vehicles already made. What do you want to bet the the UAW will make a point of picketing the Bowling Green plant to put even more pressure on GM by delaying their most anticipated car in years.

If they do things like that it will just force GM to make sure they do anything they can to never be involved with the union. I swear sometimes the people running the auto unions absolutely despise the industry and the companies.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Lifelong motorhead here. For most of my life, the manual transmission version of any performance car was by far THE one to have. That is no longer the case. Especially given a mid-engine configuration, where a manual linkage is necessarily more complicated and less direct, developing a manual for the C8 just didn't make sense, except to appease luddites and nostalgia buffs. So they skipped it. Fine by me...

I bought an '11 Cayman earlier this year, 6-speed manual because I was worried about trackability and reliability of the PDK. But at Watkins Glen the other day my student made me show him the way around the track in his '14 Cayman S PDK. DAMN, that transmission is sweeeet... My manual 6-speed is clumsy and SLOW in comparison. There's a lot to be said for being able to brake hard without having to execute heel/toe downshifts, and ability to upshift while accelerating out of a corner without a twitch and scarcely any power interruption. It doesn't take away from the driving experience, rather it allows you to concentrate MORE on driving.

That said, for a car like the FT86 or Miata, where the transmission is *right there* relative to shifter location, and where $$$ and weight are bigger considerations, and where time lost during upshifts isn't as great, a manual is going to make sense for a few more years at least...

This is a good post and basically how I feel about manual vs. flappy paddles.

Manuals are fun on the street. Flappy paddles can be technologically superior and faster. Still fun in their own way, but different.

- Andrew

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

This is a good post and basically how I feel about manual vs. flappy paddles.

Manuals are fun on the street. Flappy paddles can be technologically superior and faster. Still fun in their own way, but different.

- Andrew

There are two types of people behind the wheel of any sports car:

—More commonly, there is the driver who is racing others, who just wants to beat others, where winning is all that matters. A manual is a limitation to these people, and driving is all about lap times, having the fastest lines on the track, focusing on overcoming their opponents, etc

—Less commonly, there is the driver who is racing themselves, who is just trying to best their old times. A manual is another obstacle that challenges their skills and offers reward when executed properly. These people find most reward in driver engagement and in having feedback from their car and when they’re able to use that information successfully. How they win is more important than winning. Having fun and winning is not synonymous.

An excerpt to explain my point, which can apply to the nannies like it applies to a manual:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=147

By the afternoon the brakes felt good again but something was still not right. Didn't feel like I had full control of the car even though all traction was suppose to be off...My tuner who was at the track with me works with race cars only and couldn't understand for the life of him why I wouldn't want the Motec traction on and just be flat everywhere! In his world all that matters is lap times! I had to explain to him that fun and car control are what matters to me, (ok maybe laptimes a little).

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Lifelong motorhead here. For most of my life, the manual transmission version of any performance car was by far THE one to have. That is no longer the case. Especially given a mid-engine configuration, where a manual linkage is necessarily more complicated and less direct, developing a manual for the C8 just didn't make sense, except to appease luddites and nostalgia buffs. So they skipped it. Fine by me...

I bought an '11 Cayman earlier this year, 6-speed manual because I was worried about trackability and reliability of the PDK. But at Watkins Glen the other day my student made me show him the way around the track in his '14 Cayman S PDK. DAMN, that transmission is sweeeet... My manual 6-speed is clumsy and SLOW in comparison. There's a lot to be said for being able to brake hard without having to execute heel/toe downshifts, and ability to upshift while accelerating out of a corner without a twitch and scarcely any power interruption. It doesn't take away from the driving experience, rather it allows you to concentrate MORE on driving.

That said, for a car like the FT86 or Miata, where the transmission is *right there* relative to shifter location, and where $$$ and weight are bigger considerations, and where time lost during upshifts isn't as great, a manual is going to make sense for a few more years at least...

Following that logic, do you consider an electric drivetrain to be an equal improvement over a PDK automatic, as the PDK is an improvement over a manual, something that, "allows you to concentrate more on driving"? It seems that instant, flat torque on a gearless transmission would be ideal for someone wanting to maximize their lap times. If your Cayman was outfitted with the drivetrain of a Tesla Model 3 Performance, would that be your ultimate ideal?