11-05-2017, 08:01 AM | #113 |
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Agree with alignment. I would like to see pyro data on those tires. If you are just on the outside edge of the tire with dynamic camber loss and no additional static negative camber ... then no kidding.
Still, Cayman is a A/BS car (same as a c5z06) with more adjustability, stock for stock, vs a DS 86-platform. As in general, the limitation stock is camber. To get some more useful data, why don't we look at the Nationals results from Stock and STX classes? These cars are prepped to a ruleset with good drivers. Nationals Results: https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1506006338 BS Cayman - 117.293 DS 86 - 119.566 STX 86 - 116.616 The only take away I have from that is a properly prepared 86 can pick up a lot of lateral grip. Apples and Oranges? Maybe. But STX trim isn't crazy, either. |
11-05-2017, 08:47 AM | #114 | |
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We already know the 86 ranges from ~2760 to ~2810 depending on options. http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/20...ifications.pdf 2910lb for manual, 2976 for PDK, straight from the horse's mouth. The standard Cayman is even lower, at 2888. There's your ~150 pounds. Or are you now saying Porsche is cheating, and Toyota isn't?
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11-05-2017, 01:23 PM | #115 | |
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Nice example of go without the show Tyres and suspension are often too under-rated, but also shows (in this case) how capable the chassis is. 10s a lap is really big improvement!
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11-05-2017, 03:23 PM | #116 | |
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11-05-2017, 03:43 PM | #117 | |
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However, as if they felt guilty about that, the engines seem to put out way more power than claimed, so at the end of the day it works out. http://www.planet-9.com/981-cayman-a...981-weigh.html First guy has basically no options on a Boxster S, and is only barely under 3000lbs without a full tank of fuel. Definitely over 3000 with full fuel. Cayman might come a tiny bit under 3000 with full fuel. Last edited by serialk11r; 11-05-2017 at 03:53 PM. |
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11-05-2017, 06:24 PM | #118 |
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Everyone is cheating and we don't live in a perfect world. Toyota seems that cheated too with the overrated 200ps catalog spec number. It is easy to certify an engine that has plenty of time on a test bed, using the thinnest and hottest possible oil, the least quantity of oil, the best available fuel and so on. Such an engine will output a number that will never see again in the real world. In my view this is more serious than hiding some weight from a car. Unfortunately, no one from Toyota can speak out officially and the revised car although much stronger had to get the 205ps catalog spec. Because they had to correct the original mistake. It is not yet what many people wanted (turbo), but overall a much better car doomed by the mistakes of the past.
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11-06-2017, 09:36 AM | #119 | |
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11-06-2017, 10:24 AM | #120 | |
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11-06-2017, 10:53 AM | #121 | |
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11-06-2017, 11:24 AM | #122 | |
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11-06-2017, 11:27 AM | #123 | |
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11-06-2017, 11:35 AM | #124 | |
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195 is also pretty close to the 200 that it is rated at. Can't just take all the low numbers and do the math and leave all the high ones out. There are also plenty of stock dynos in the 170 to 178 range. Dynos are notoriously inaccurate in the first place and then everybody likes to play with the numbers that make their theory work so the low ones get put out more often. Everybody can dispute the numbers all they want but the fact remains that they are the official results from following the required standards. Just because some don't believe them does not make them false or "cheating".
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11-06-2017, 11:56 AM | #125 | |
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Just because there are official standards doesn't mean that's how the engines perform in real world driving. There are some cars that are notoriously overrated just like there are cars that are underrated. For example, the 2004 SRT-4 was rated at 230hp at the crank by Dodge. In the real world, data consistently showed that the true crank HP was actually 255-265hp. I get that dynos are highly variable, but after years of data are obtained isn't it possible to make certain claims even if it conflicts with what the manufacture originally stated? Last edited by funwheeldrive; 11-06-2017 at 12:09 PM. |
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11-06-2017, 01:28 PM | #126 |
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Cayman and Boxster weights are all over the place because of options and differences between the generations 986, 987, 981, 982 (718). However, despite Porsche's claims to the contrary, they have DEFINITELY gained weight over the years.
The Cayman S used in Car and Driver's 2017 Lightning Lap event weighed 3162. That's for a car equipped with the PDK and PASM. Porsche's website says the Cayman S weighs 2954 lb, so that's a pretty big difference. My model 987 Cayman S, when tested by R&T in 2006, weighed 2955 lb. Differences from my car were PASM (added weight), power seats (added weight) and PCCBs (reduced weight). Mine is stripped, other than Sport Chrono I basically have no options. I've never had the car weighed, but I'm pretty confident it's under 3000 lb. Skidpad figure they came up with, btw, was 0.96 using Michelin Pilot Sports.
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