When do you guys shift under normal driving (Esp 1st to 2nd)

[churchx]

One should be careful with clutch pedal travel adjustment. It's easy to miss slight clutch drag manifestating only in harder gear engages when driving at normal speed, even while "passed" testing when stationary.

While it might be beneficial to turn less some of possible stock dead travel, i'd leave some dead travel in place before felt clutch bite point.

[Jasonb]

Take out the clutch pedal spring and do the pedal adjustment. Makes a huge difference.

Then for heel and toe try spacing the gas pedal away from the firewall slightly, and maybe getting a pedal cover to also bring the gas pedal just a little bit closer and also to make it a hair wider.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

If you've already had some experience with a different manual transmission, I bet you're struggling with the weird clutch because it engages so high. It's a common complaint.

Try to avoid dumping it even at the very top, and hold off on feeding the throttle.

It has an odd rhythm compared to normal cars.

Good point.

It seems that when many people start to learn to shift a MT car, they let up on the clutch till they just barely feel it engage/disengage ……. then abruptly release it. I suggest you try to "follow through" with the clutch release …… kind like a golfer follows through with a swing.


humfrz

[RJasonKlein]

I sense the original poster is a relatively inexperienced driver of cars with manual transmissions by the questions he’s asking, so I would not recommend he adjust the clutch pedal free play by himself.

@Snoopyjh, take comfort in the fact that this car is tricky to drive smoothly - if you search for ‘smooth shifting’ or ‘shifting problem’ or countless other related searches, you’ll find hundreds of posts. Now for the bad news: It’s you that’s the problem. Basically your timing is off and you’re fighting the process - when you do it right, the car will almost shift itself.

Here are some tips, but this is tough to do in writing. There is no particular RPM you need to shift at, so stop that line of thinking altogether. Concentrate on your clutch control at startup and if you’re smooth, you can launch the car with almost no throttle at all - obviously you don’t need to start this way, but it will avoid issues you may have with slipping the clutch or jerky getaways. Once you’re rolling you can feed in the throttle as slowly or quickly as you want or need. Shifting between gears at lower RPMs requires slightly slower shifting than at high RPMs, where the gear change is done quite quickly. It sounds like you’re experiencing jerkiness between shifts and your natural response has been to slow down the gear change, which isn’t addressing the actual problem which is that you’re doing the dance incorrectly. You need to hone the synchronized and fluid motion of smoothly rolling off the throttle, disengaging the clutch, moving the shift lever at the right speed, smoothly engaging the clutch, and then rolling back on the throttle again - and this comes with practice. This will sound strange, but something that may help you is to put light pressure on the gear lever when changing up a gear prior to initiating the shift. You’ll feel the gear lever meet resistance against the gate and the lever won’t want to move - don’t force it. When you want to actually make the gear change, slowly roll off the throttle while maintaining pressure on the gear lever without disengaging the clutch and you’ll notice that the resistance against the gate disappears and the gear lever will slide easily toward the next gear - it does this because you’ve taken the load out of the driveline. I’m not suggesting that you change gears without using the clutch, but simply to get a feel for decoupling (unloading) the driveline, because feeling that point will let you know when to initiate the whole shifting process. The clutch should be disengaged as the driveline unloads and the gear lever should be moved smoothly in one fluid motion to engage the next gear. As mentioned earlier, the speed you move the gear lever is slower during low RPM shifts and faster during high RPM shifts. You may actually find it easier to make upchanges at higher rather than lower RPMs, because everything is spinning quickly and the shifting is quicker. Once the next gear is selected, release the clutch smoothly and roll the throttle back on. Like moving the gear lever, the clutch should be engaged more slowly during low RPM shifts and more quickly during high RPM shifts, but with practice this will all become second nature. Keep in mind, the process I’m describing is for changing up - when you’ve mastered this come back and see us, because the process for smoothly changing down is a whole different thing. You will need to experiment, but you’ll eventually get it - and if you can master the 86, you can master any car with a manual transmission. That challenge, and the reward you get when it’s done right, is partly why we love these cars.

Good luck, my friend - and have fun!

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

Good luck, my friend - and have fun!

Good read, is there a sequel?

[Breadman]

1 > 2 is never smooth cold for me. after it warms up tho its pretty smooth. i feel like there is decent rev hang when cold

[df.dima]

I only shift out of 1st at 7200! Got to show those minivans at the light!

On serious note lots of good advice here.
Like some say dont look at tach and go by feel and sound and get ur timing down. This was my first MT and i found it hard to go smooth even after a few years i screw ul if im notnpaying attention. Surprisingly when my friend let me drive his 2006 Acura TL i found it mich easier and that was when i just started learning...

In town if im relaxed i shift at 3-4k to end up in 2.5-3k range and cruise near 3. For a noobie at first it felt actually easier to shift higher in spirited driving but when i felt good at that i started sorting out lower part of the rev range. Smooth clutch work!

[TorontoNat]

Originally Posted by Jasonb

Take out the clutch pedal spring and do the pedal adjustment. Makes a huge difference.

Then for heel and toe try spacing the gas pedal away from the firewall slightly, and maybe getting a pedal cover to also bring the gas pedal just a little bit closer and also to make it a hair wider.

Good thread lots of good info here. Just don't listen to things like this

Good practice as stated above is just learn how to make the car move forward from a stop with ZERO throttle. Not that hard and shows you exactly where your clutch is grabbing.

Also remember you must decide what you want from your shift.. A fast shift is still jerky (A glorious forward-moving jerk I must ad) and a comfortable shift will never be fast.

Beauty of the twins is they will teach you how to drive properly whether you like it or not.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by df.dima

I only shift out of 1st at 7200! Got to show those minivans at the light!

So low? I take it to 7850 every time.

Originally Posted by humfrz

Good point.

It seems that when many people start to learn to shift a MT car, they let up on the clutch till they just barely feel it engage/disengage ……. then abruptly release it. I suggest you try to "follow through" with the clutch release …… kind like a golfer follows through with a swing.


humfrz

That 'just starting to feel it engage' is when you switch from large muscle groups to small muscle groups... i.e. using the leg vs the ankle/foot. I honestly can't remember if my heel is on the floor or not at this point, but putting it there is one way to isolate the leg muscles out of the picture - even if it's just for practice.

Most people sit WAY too far back, which makes smooth control of the car impossible - whether it be clutch, gas, brake, or steering.

[TorontoNat]

Originally Posted by cjd

So low? I take it to 7850 every time.



That 'just starting to feel it engage' is when you switch from large muscle groups to small muscle groups... i.e. using the leg vs the ankle/foot. I honestly can't remember if my heel is on the floor or not at this point, but putting it there is one way to isolate the leg muscles out of the picture - even if it's just for practice.

Most people sit WAY too far back, which makes smooth control of the car impossible - whether it be clutch, gas, brake, or steering.

YES! Also there are grooves in the steering wheel telling you where you should be holding it.... Right hand on the top left corner of the steering wheel with the seat all the way back on the highway doing 100 aint cool bro... you know what is? Safety my friend... Safety.
*not directed at whoever i quoted here of course, just ranting at generic imaginary ppl that don't exist but are based on real life ppl that do exist.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by TorontoNat

YES! Also there are grooves in the steering wheel telling you where you should be holding it.... Right hand on the top left corner of the steering wheel with the seat all the way back on the highway doing 100 aint cool bro... you know what is? Safety my friend... Safety.
*not directed at whoever i quoted here of course, just ranting at generic imaginary ppl that don't exist but are based on real life ppl that do exist.

everyone knows its your left finger and thumb on the bottom of the wheelis the real cool

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Breadman

everyone knows its your left finger and thumb on the bottom of the wheelis the real cool

It's all about the knee. Who needs hands?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cjd

So low? I take it to 7850 every time.



That 'just starting to feel it engage' is when you switch from large muscle groups to small muscle groups... i.e. using the leg vs the ankle/foot. I honestly can't remember if my heel is on the floor or not at this point, but putting it there is one way to isolate the leg muscles out of the picture - even if it's just for practice.

Most people sit WAY too far back, which makes smooth control of the car impossible - whether it be clutch, gas, brake, or steering.

This is where the stock clutch is such a dumpster fire for me. I was used to being able to modulate by rocking on my heel. Then this one threw off my rhythm badly.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by cjd

……………..
Most people sit WAY too far back, which makes smooth control of the car impossible - whether it be clutch, gas, brake, or steering.

You got THAT right ……….


humfrz